Dr. Mark Goulston is back with Dr. Misner on the podcast today. (He was on Episode 127, “Get Through to Absolutely Anyone,” and Episode 128, “Turbo-Charging Your One-on-Ones.”)

This week’s topic is about planning an “Xtraordinary” year by imagining yourself in 1, 3, or 5 years and saying “Wow!”

If you applied this plan to BNI, you would imagine yourself getting referrals effortlessly, having conversations in which they could say, and you could say, “Wow, you get it! You get us! You get me!”

Think of what it is that has caused people to “Wow” you, and then do it.

Visit Dr. Goulston’s Xtraordinary Outcomes website, where he and his partner figures out how the most talented employees do what they do and help them to do it more consistently.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 195 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the web for networking downloadables. I’m Priscilla Rice, and I’m coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, California, and I’m joined on the phone today by the Founder and the Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan. How are you and who do you have with us?

Ivan:
Hello Priscilla. I am doing great and I have a good friend on the podcast with me today, Dr. Mark Goulston. Mark is an MD but he is a business advisor. He is a consultant, trainer and a coach. He is trained as clinical psychiatrist who honed his skills as an FBI police hostage negotiation trainer, which I think is just amazing. He is the author of a book called Just Listen- Discover the Secret to Getting Through to Absolutely Anyone.

If that sounds at all familiar to some of my podcast listeners, that is because we did a podcast with Mark back on how to get through to absolutely anyone. It was such a great podcast that we carried it through to yet another podcast right after that. So if you have a chance and are listening to this podcast, go take a look on BNIpodcast.com and just type in Mark’s name. Goulston. You will find a dew podcasts with Mark, Podcast 127 and 128.

Mark, you are one of the few people who I have had on my podcast three times. You have great content. I welcome you to our podcast. I want to introduce you with one more thing. I want to tell people what led us to do this podcast today. We got together at a play recently, written by Chet Holmes, who is most well-known for his sales and management training. He did a play called Emily’s Song. It was really good. I was amazed at how skilled he is at in another area other than business. We went to dinner afterward, and you told me something at dinner that just resonated with me, and I said, “ We have to do a podcast on this.”

I appreciate you taking the time to do it, Mark. Tell everybody what the topic for the podcast is and I’ll let you run with it.

Mark:
It’s called how to plan an Xtraordinary year. We spell that X-t-r-a-ordinary. I mentioned, that a lot of times, it takes a lot of energy for people to pump themselves up and try to do a little bit better than what they are doing. But if you ask people to imagine it is a year from now or two years, three years, or five years from now, and you wake up, it’s a Monday morning, and you do a 360 of your life- you look at your job, you look at your career, you look at your wife, you look at your kids and say , “Wow”.

If you ask people to do that, they usually see much more clearly when you ask what their goals are for one, two, three and five years from now. For instance, if one of those things with regard to your business is you say , “Wow” and you’re in BNI, I think the “Wow” would be it’s really amazing that when I go to my meetings, I don’t have to ask anything. People are just coming at me to give me referrals. I have to say very little. I blush and I just say I am proud, glad and pleased to be part of BNI.

That would be a wow as opposed to, oh, do I have to do a hard sell to other people? I think most people would say how do we do that? I have even ratcheted that down to how do you do that in a meeting? I’ll tell you whenever I go to meetings now or meet people going to one on ones for lunches or breakfasts, I go there saying to myself, “What will cause them, after I leave, to say, ‘Wow. That was a great meeting! That was a great use of my time. I want more meetings like that with people like Mark.’?”

If you ask yourself to do that, I think what you would come up with if you were the other person is three things. One of the three things is the other person would say, “Gee. You really get it. You get my situation. You get my opportunities. You get the things that I am facing. You get what is happening in my business.”

The second thing is, “You get us.” If I am in a company, you kind of get our culture, our restrictions, and the kinds of things we have to deal with.”
But the real kicker is, “You get me.” Meaning, I have opened up to you and this is more than just a transactional conversation. When other people feel that “you get it, you get us, you get me,” you get them. The key is give to get.
What I write about in Just Listen is be more interested than interesting. Be more fascinated by people than fascinating. My mentor, Warren Bennis, whom I love dearly- and I’m not the only one who loves him dearly. One of my favorite lines from him is, “Boredom occurs when I fail to make the other person interesting.”

Ivan:
I think you know, Mark, that I studied briefly under Warren Bennis at USC. You went to UCLA, but you still like Warren; I’m impressed. He is truly an icon in the field of leadership. There is nobody stronger in that area.

Mark:
What’s fascinating, because I have been going to a lot of tributes to Warren is he will be interviewed, often by a very respectable person, and it’s fascinating because when the other person talks, you nod in kind of respect to the other person, but when Warren speaks, he speaks with you and you lean into him. The reason he speaks with you is he really is interested in you.
I think the secret to an Xtraordinary year is to project yourself into the end of this. And the secret to an Xtraordinary conversation that will increase business is what is it that comes out that will cause them to say “Wow”? I think what will cause them to say, “Wow” is you get it. You get our situation. You kind of get our company, what we’re going through, and you get me.

I have a really fascinating anecdote. A good friend of mine is the CEO of Abbot Medical Optics. He told me how Abbot Laboratories bought his company called Advanced Medical Optics. They make the opthomalic solution, Blink. What my friend, Jim Mazzo, said is, that the CEO of Abbot Laboratories flew in from Chicago to Orange County. What Jim told me is, “He didn’t tell me anything about Abbot Laboratories. He told me everything about my company, and he told me about me- where I was in my career, how I really wanted to expand my business. If another company took us over, I still wanted to be able to run my successful company the way it was being run- and that I want to do that.” That is exactly what Abbot gave him. And he said to me, “ How could I say no?”

Ivan:
That’s powerful. That’s a powerful story. Let me ask you a question. You say project yourself. Would it be safe to say that you can project yourself backwards? I tell BNI members to look where you want to go and then reverse engineer it. How did you get there? Would you say that in order to say, “Wow” a year from now, the have to look back and say how did they get to the wow? Did they do this, this and this?

Mark:
Absolutely. I would say for them to practice. As you are driving to the meeting. Imagine to yourself that it’s the end of the meeting and when you leave, you say to yourself that was the best meeting yet. That was the best meeting yet for me. Some people will say that’s because everyone had all these referrals for me. Okay, let’s think why would people have all these referrals to give you? I think part of it is because there is something that you did for them that triggered generosity and gratitude. What would it be that would trigger that? I will give you at tip that you and I know very well. There is a saying that if you do something for someone, they will thank you. If you do something for one of their children, they will never forget you. So care about the person and their family outside of the business negotiation, and see how you can help them.

Something I do, and some people would be uncomfortable, but I can get away with it because I was trained as a clinical psychiatrist- sometimes when you are having a conversation with someone, if you can pause, look them in the eye, and say, “What’s really going on with you?” But say it like you care. And say it because you care. Don’t just say it because you are going to shift them into a sale or a close. It’s interesting. One of my mentors who I just listened and dedicated to said, “If you just listen for pain and fear and stress in people, they will open up and share it with you. And then they will share their dreams and hopes with you, and they will be grateful to you forevermore.

Ivan:
That’s powerful information for our BNI members. I think what you have given us, Mark , is basically the law of attraction with some hands on application. How do you attract that end life? How do you take this where you want to go and apply it. We are almost out of time, Mark. Any wrap up closing comments that you have?

Mark:
Maybe one of the ways to produce “Wow” in a meeting is think of the conversations that you’ve had with someone that wasn’t just strictly I’ll give you a referral. Think of what it is that has caused people to wow you and then do the same to others.

Ivan:
Now, you have a website that talks about some of this. It’s in progress, but you’ll be adding content. I wanted to share it with everybody. It’s called Xtraordinaryoutcomes.com. What will you be having up there very soon, Mark?

Mark:
Well, what we’ve discovered is the difference between an outcome and a goal. A goal is often something that you aim a dart at in the future and it’s built upon a wing and a prayer. But an outcome is preceded by something. An Xtraordinary outcome is preceded by extraordinary actions and lousy outcomes are preceded by lousy actions. So what we are focusing on is what are the extraordinary things that occur that cause an Xtraordinary outcome?
My partner, Doc Barrum, one of the things that he does- and I am so honored because he is a genius at this. One of the things is to try to hold on and preserve talent. One of the things that we can do is take your most talented sales person, manager or operations person that you can’t reproduce and we can figure out the way they do it so they can do it more consistently. Also, we can teach others- we can basically clone your best and give it to the rest. That produces Xtraordinary outcomes.

Ivan:
Mark, thank you very much for being on our podcast. I love the concept. It’s a year from now and you say , “ Wow.” How did you make that happen? That’s what we talked about here today. It’s Dr. Mark Goulston, author of Just Listen- Discover the Secret to Get Through to Absolutely Anyone. A great expert in this field and a person I consider to be a friend. Mark, I thank you very much for being on our podcast today.

Mark:
It’s always extraordinary to be with you, Ivan.

Ivan:
Okay, thank you. Priscilla, back to you.

Priscilla:
Okay, thank you so much. Thank you both. I think that is it for this week. I would just like to remind the listeners that today’s podcast was brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thanks for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope that you will join us again next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

Dr. Misner’s secret to creating balance in your life is this: “Forget about balance. You’ll never have it.”

The good news is that harmony in your life is possible. “Balance” assumes equal time on everything that’s important. Harmony is not balanced, but it’s complete as a whole.

Here are some keys to a life that’s in harmony.

• Be Here Now
• Set time aside for the things that really matter.
• Find ways to integrate different parts of your life
• When you’re 70 years old, you’re not going to wish you spent more time at the office

Harmony is created where harmony is sought. What do you do to create harmony in your life? Leave a comment and let us know.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 136 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables.

I’m Priscilla Rice, and I’m coming to you from the beautiful Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, California, and I am joined on the phone today by the founder and the chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner.

Hello, Ivan. How are you?

Ivan:
I’m doing great, Priscilla. I’ve got a fun topic today.

Priscilla:
What’s that?

Ivan:
The Secret to Balance.

Priscilla:
Great.

Ivan:
I think this is a great topic for the beginning of a new year. People – the year is starting up, and they’re thinking about their lives, and so I thought this would be a really good topic to cover. Because personal and professional balance in our lives seems to be the ever elusive dream for many business people in trying to balance home, work, health, spirituality, free time seems almost impossible, something that business people have told me for years.

Priscilla:
Right.

Ivan:
Well, I’m really pleased to tell you that I think I’ve found the answer to creating balance in your life. Are you ready for this, Priscilla?

Priscilla:
Yes, please.

Ivan:
Write this down; here it is. Forget about balance; you’ll never have it!

Priscilla:
Okay.

Ivan:
I spoke at a conference once, and they were asking me about balance, and I said that publicly. And I heard this woman from the front row go, “Oh, no!” She was so upset, “No balance, that can’t be; it’s not right.” But there is good news. Although I don’t think balance is possible, I do believe you can create harmony in your life, and this differentiation is more than just semantics. It’s really a critical approach to looking at life that can free you up to see the world in a different way.

Balance assumes that we spend an equal amount of time in all or most areas of our life. It’s like the image of the scales where everything is completely in balance and equal, and it assumes that we have to have a certain portion of each week devoted in some equal measure to every item that’s important in our life. Well, the problem with that is that almost no one can really achieve that, especially entrepreneurs and professionals and sales people. We tend to live such hectic, busy lives that it’s incredibly difficult to fit it all in.

So what do we do about it? For me, it’s about creating harmony. Just look at the image that represents harmony. It’s a swirling circle, and it seems – by its very nature, it looks like it’s out of balance if you’re just looking at one-half of it or the other half of it. Even its image is lopsided when you look at one aspect at a time. But the whole feels complete, and this is the way to look at the issue. At least it’s the way that I’ve looked at it that’s really worked for me.

Sometimes I work crazy, long hours for days in a row or I may be on the road traveling for business for many days at a time. On the other hand, I’m also a husband and a father, and I need and I want to be there for my family as well as have time for myself. And long ago, I figured out that the daily balance is almost impossible, and I found that, however, I create harmony using a few core principles. So I thought I’d share in the remaining time some of those principles with everyone, and I think this is really important because we’re trying to spend time networking and doing all of our other business activities and have a family life, and some kind of harmony is really important. And there’s three things that I want to share with the BNI members on what works for me personally.

Priscilla:
Okay.

Ivan:
First, three simple words that make a huge difference for me: Be here now. Be here now. Wherever you are, be there. If you’re at work, don’t think about the time you didn’t spend with the family the night before or what you should be doing with your significant other right now. When you’re at home, don’t think about the work you have to do at the office. Wherever you are, be there fully and completely. It’s a simple technique that is really effective. It takes practice, but if you can focus on being wherever it is that you are at, rather than be thinking about someplace else that you should be at and other things you should be doing, it really helps.

Second, make sure you set time aside to do all the things that are truly, truly important in your life. Now, I know, everybody says that. But here’s my twist. You have to be creative about how you manage this. For example, when I wrote my first book, I didn’t want to be holed up in my office writing in the evening and not be available to my family, so I found a creative way to find the time that was in harmony with my family. A few evenings a month, I’d up with the family, I’d pray everyone to bed, and then I’d go into my office and I’d start writing at 11:00 or 12:00 at night. I’d work almost all night long on my manuscript. I’d catch a few hours of sleep, and I’d get into the office maybe a little late to start my day, but I’m, believe it or not, a late-night person, which is crazy for a guy who started BNI. Now, this may not work for everyone, but it worked really well for me, and what was really exciting was nothing pleased me more when I showed my kids the book that I had just published and they said to me, “When did you write that?” They had no idea I was up working late at night several times a month, and that was a way to create harmony, finding time that wouldn’t pull away from family time.

Here’s a third idea. Find ways to integrate various elements of you life. For many years, I spent weeks at a time up at my lake home in the mountains, and I’ve talked about that in previous podcasts. Each year I spend a week or two working from the lake house remotely. I bring up staff. I bring up my management team for short retreats or holidays. I bring them up for BNI meetings. Later this week I’m taking everybody up there from the BNI management team, and we’re going to spend several days doing some strategic vision making for the organization. It’s a great way to combine my work life into a leisure environment. And then, of course, when I do this over the summer, I take the last week or so completely off and spend time just with family. And it’s one way that I’m able to integrate my two worlds and create a sense of harmony.

Now, these ideas don’t necessarily – they’re not going to work for everybody; they don’t work necessarily for everyone, but if you can find concepts that work for you to be creative on how you spend your time and how you can create harmony in your life, you’re going to feel more balanced or more in harmony with your work.

One last thing. When you’re 70 years old, you’re not going to wish you spent more time at the office, and you don’t have to be a workaholic to be successful. I am not a workaholic. I work long hours, but I also focus on creating harmony in my life. You can do it. Be creative. Don’t try to do things that I do or that someone else does. Find ideas that work for you and the life you live. Make the time to do the things that are important to you in being innovative. Harmony is created where harmony is sought. Okay, maybe that’s a little bit New Age-y, but it’s really true.

And I’d love to hear from BNI members on what they think about this approach and what they do to create harmony in their lives. So leave a comment on this podcast and let me and others who are reading or listening to this podcast know what has worked for you, because I am a firm believer that you can have a successful business and not be a workaholic. And networking is a key element of that, but you have to spend your time doing other things as well.

That’s it for this week, Priscilla. Thank you.

Priscilla:
That was great. I especially like the “Be here now” concept. It’s so important, and I love hearing about it.

Ivan:
Yeah, and it’s not an easy one. Sometimes you sit there and you’re thinking, “Gee, I should be doing this” or “I didn’t do that last night,” and you just have to remind yourself, “Be here now; wherever I am, I’ve got to be here and focus on this so that when I do get home tonight, I’m focused on spending time with my family.” Or when you go home, don’t be thinking about the work projects that you’ve got to do. Be at home. If you have projects that need to be done, find some creative time to work on it, like I do, from home. Sometimes later in the evening when everybody’s in bed, then I’ll start to work on some stuff.

Be here now. Great concept. That one, I think, can work for everybody.

Priscilla:
Yeah, I think so, too. Not everybody has a beautiful house in Big Bear.

Ivan:
No, but, you know, I didn’t have a beautiful house in Big Bear when I started doing this. It would be maybe I would rent a place in the summer for a week and that would be it. Or I would just take time at home, so that’s why I say, “Don’t do what I do; take the concept and apply it to where you’re at.” Because I used these techniques long before I had a lake house. I would find ways to be creative in the environment that I had at my fingertips. And so take these ideas and apply them to you. That’s what I did, and it’s helped me to evolve over time to be more successful.

Priscilla:
Great! Well, thank you. Okay, I guess that’s it, huh, Dr. Misner?

Ivan:
Yep. Thanks, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
You’re welcome.

I just want to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables. Thanks so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you’ll join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

This week Dr. Misner continues his discussion with Dr. Mark Goulston, author of Just Listen.

The topic for this week is how to take listening from being transactional to being transformational. To do this, you need to get them to uncross their arms—literally and figuratively—by getting them to talk about their passion.

One question you can ask is “Imagine you wake up five years from now and life is perfect. What do you see in your career? What are you doing?” That conversation can transport people into a future that they’ve never thought about. It’s amazing how you will bond with that person.

That’s the kind of question that would be perfect for a one-to-one in BNI.

For some great free resources, including questions to ask in order to delegate more effectively, visit JustListentheBook.com.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 128 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast which is brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables.

I’m Priscilla Rice, and I’m coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, California, and I am joined on the phone today by the founder and the chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner.

Hello, Ivan. How are you? And where are you?

Ivan:
Hi, Priscilla. I’m doing great. This week I’m in Michigan. I’m doing presentations throughout Michigan. I love visiting this region of BNI. It has hundreds of BNI chapters throughout Michigan. BNI has hundreds of chapters and quite a few members. As a matter of fact, you’ll love this, if Michigan were a country for BNI, Michigan would be the third largest country for the BNI program.

Priscilla:
Wow! That’s interesting.

Ivan:
It’s huge. They bleed burgundy here in Michigan. It’s really a pleasure to be here speaking to a lot of the BNI members. And we’ve done something unusual for this podcast. We’ve carried over the speaker that we had, the guest that we had last week into this week. A good friend of mine, Dr. Mark Goulston. Mark is a psychiatrist and business consultant. He’s been an FBI and police hostage negotiator. And we were talking about his book that just came out recently, within the last month, called Just Listen, and the Web site for the book is JustListenTheBook.com. Lots of free resources there for BNI members. I don’t promote a lot of books on the podcasts, but I really loved this book, and Mark is a good friend. We talked last week about some material from the book.

But there is something that I really wanted to talk about, didn’t get a chance to last week, and that was the idea of how you take listening from being transactional to transformational, which is, in a way, a lot of what we try to do in BNI, to try to take the relationships from being transactional to transformational.

And you’ve got a great story for that, Mark. Do you want to share that with us?

Mark:
Absolutely. I was actually giving a talk to a networking organization, not as well run and I don’t think as productive as BNI. And what I did is I had people introduce themselves to each other, and I said, “Pair up with someone that you don’t know, so this will be very good for the one-to-ones that BNI suggests after meetings. And introduce yourself, what do you do, and who do you do it for, maybe when you do it, etc., etc.” And people did that, and I gave them five minutes to do that and made sure that they changed after two-and-a-half minutes.

And then I said, “I’d like you to try something else. I would like you now to each take the same two-and-a-half minutes and talk about the benefits that your service or product provided to a customer or client. So tell a story of something that totally made that person’s life better and you were associated with by offering them your services or product.”

So what happened is the conversation was totally different, much more animated, much more passionate, much less selling. It was really tough getting them to let go of the conversation and come back to my talk. And afterwards, I said, “What did you notice?”

And they said, “Geez, we didn’t feel like we were selling. We felt more spontaneous. We felt more comfortable. We felt closer.”

And I said, “Well, I noticed that, but I noticed something else. And what I noticed is that you all used your hands a lot more. The reason you used your hands is because the passion you felt when you were talking from the value of your service or product instead of trying to sell people, the passion you felt was so strong that the words were not enough to communicate it, and so you started to use your hands to do that.”

So here’s the take-all, because I’m a neuroscientist. When you’re dealing with skeptical clients or customers or maybe other networkers, when they’re feeling skeptical, their arms are crossed in their mind, and if you can get them to actually uncross their arms literally in front of you to communicate with their arms and hands as well as their words, they will uncross their arms and hands in their mind and be open to you. And you can do that by asking something they’re passionate about or something that they’re really scared about. So you can take either route. The key is as you begin to feel this and you feel them uncrossing their arms, you actually feel them opening up to you, the key is to be of service to them, to actually give to get and focus much more on the giving whether you get or not. As opposed to opening them up and then doing a bait-and-switch or maneuvering them, which I think is out of integrity and not in alignment, actually, with the spirit of BNI. But it’s amazing how it transformed the conversation.

And regarding transformation versus transactional, transactional conversations are eye to eye, toe to toe, and what you have is commodity versus commodity, and people will try and cheap date you and will decide things on price. When you can ask people questions that cause them to break the conversation and look up to the ceiling because they want to think more about what you’ve asked them, when they come down with their eyes to look at you again, you’re not in a transaction anymore; it’s been transformed into a relationship, because you have added relating to the conversation.

Ivan:
I think that’s really powerful. A lot of what we try to teach is that when you come to a BNI meeting and you’re telling people what you do, you’re not trying to close a sale; you’re trying to train a referral team, you’re trying to teach them about what you do. And that, to me, is not transactional. We talk about transactional networking to be a sort of coin operated networking, where you put the coin in and you expect results right now.

But transformational networking is really about going deep and building that relationship. Wouldn’t you agree?

Mark:
Absolutely. And I think building on that, I think a good thing to also get from people that go with passion, but find out what their core of excellence is, because when I discover what people’s core of excellence is, I feel it behooves me to go out to people, and the way I’ll make a referral is I’ll say, “Have you ever met someone who is so excellent in their service or product when you experience it that you just had to tell others?”

And everyone says yes.

I said, “Well, I need to tell you about someone I just met, what they do, and what they did for me so that you can experience it on your own.”

And I think when people can pause and talk about their core of excellence, what you’ll see happen is instead of being a sales mode, you’ll see confidence, you’ll see them actually re-experience their competence so they’ll feel much better. It will be a wonderful conversation, and then you can actually follow it up in that way I just suggested.

Ivan:
You know, in BNI, when we do the one-to-ones, and what you’re suggesting here would be something great to try out on the one-to-ones to see how they’re responding to what you have to say. We do what we call the GAINS Exchange, where people share their Goals, their Accomplishments, their Interests, their Networks, and their Skills, as a way of getting them to open up about – a little bit of personal information about themselves rather than transactional, “Hey, here’s how you can give me a referral.” And we find that going a little bit deeper and sharing with each other a little bit more about each other that it creates connections for people to build upon.

Have you seen that with your networking efforts?

Mark:
Not as much as what you do. You deserve – you especially, Ivan; you’ve created an amazing organization that’s really about productivity and results, but it’s also about building a community. You have a caring community, but one of the things they want to share is help each other be successful.

One of the questions I’ll ask people, by the way, to deepen the value is – sometimes people who are in transactional professions just see themselves going and improving their business by just doing more and bigger deals. If you ask someone this question, “I would like you to imagine that in five years from now and you wake up, it’s a Monday morning, and life is perfect. What do you see in your career? What are you doing?”

And what’s fascinating is a lot of time, people will, instead of breaking from the future they’re living into now, which they may not be that keen about other than making more money, that kind of conversation will transport them into a future that they’ve never thought about, like “Well, you know what I’d like to see? I’d like to see myself doing this, which is very different than what I’m doing now.” And then if you help them work backwards. “Well, what would be the steps between now and then to make that future a reality?”

Talk about transforming a conversation from transactional, it’s amazing how you will bond with that person.

Ivan:
Great example. And these kinds of questions, I think, are perfect for the one-to-ones, and I urge members listening to this podcast to try out some of the things that Mark’s been talking about here.

And, Mark, you’ve got a Web site, JustListenTheBook.com, that has a ton of free resources. Do you want to give my members a couple of the examples of the free resources they can get from your Web site?

Mark:
Well, there’s a list of things called Two Questions that are exclusive to the site, and I think in a prior podcast, we talked about two questions to gain people’s respect and have them treat you better. One of the other two questions is how to delegate more effectively, and I need to give credit to a friend of mine, Stan Barkey, who is a senior executive at State Farm for many years, and he said whenever you’re delegating something, the first question is to tell people what you want them to do; but then instead of saying, “Do you understand?” you said, “What do you understand that I’ve asked you to do, and why it’s important for us to do that?” When you do that, they feel, actually, more than a function.

But the second question, which he feels is the best question he’s ever asked in his career, is, you said, “In the event that, for any reason, you’re not able to do what you just agreed to, how do you want me to react to you? If what I care most about is just getting the work done, I have no interest in being punitive, and all that kind of stuff, but going forward, what shall I do?”

And that’s what I talk about a lot in the book, Just Listen; if you can talk about the future that nobody has messed up yet, it’s amazing how open people are, whereas if you talk about something that’s already happened, even in the best of conversations, you’re going to get people that are defensive, justifying their position. And so I thought that was amazing advice when you’re delegating to someone. And then you repeat it back to them, “So what you’ve said is, if you don’t follow through, what you’d like me to do is to never tell you about it in front of other people, but just take you into the office and be firm with you and tell you it needs to be done by today, etc.” Then you repeat it back to them and you wait for them to get what I call the confirmatory yes. And when they say yes, then you have your way of dealing with them instead of fuming about them when they drop the ball.

Ivan:
Well, Mark, great content. Your book called Just Listen, our members can go there, to JustListenTheBook.com. I highly recommend this book and free resources at the Web site. Dr. Mark Goulston, thank you so much for being on two of my podcasts. You’re the first guest back to back like that, I think, so thank you so much.

Mark:
Thank you, Ivan.

Ivan:
Back to you, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Okay. Thank you both. That was great.

I’d like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com which is the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you’ll join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

This week Dr. Misner talks to Mark Goulston, MD, the author of Just Listen.

Here are some of the tips Dr. Goulston offers about listening:

• Listening reduces anxiety—for the listener as well as the speaker.
• Instead of interrupting, say “Tell me more about that.” You’ll get a better result.
• World-class listeners care less about being right than about helping people.
• Not managing your own anxiety makes it hard to listen—and hard for people to listen to you.
• Instead of interrogating people, invite them into a conversation by letting them fill in the blanks in statements.

You can sign up to get free resources, including the first chapter of the book and the Two Questions series at http://www.justlistenthebook.com/resources/.

Tune in next week for a second interview with Mark Goulston.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 127 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast which is brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables.

I’m Priscilla Rice, and I’m coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, California, and I am joined on the phone today by the founder and the chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner.

Hello, Ivan. How are you? And who do you have with us today?

Ivan:
I’m doing great, Priscilla. Thank you very much, and I have a good friend of mine, Dr. Mark Goulston. Mark is a psychiatrist, business consultant, executive coach, and, believe it or not, an FBI and police hostage negotiator. He’s done a number of best selling books. And Mark and I met each other a little over a year ago at a very unusual event, a storytelling event, and have gotten to be friends and really love his latest book called Just Listen. And I just want to welcome Mark to the podcast.

Dr. Goulston, great to have you.

Mark:
Well, glad to be hear, and before we get started, something I want you to listen to and something that I think people on the call can use as long as they use it earnestly. And it’s called the Power Thank You. And the Power Thank You has three parts, and it’s a way of helping people actually feel how much you are grateful to them in this “everyone feels taken for granted” world. And the three parts are:

Thank someone specifically for what they did or maybe a negative thing that they refrained from doing, the effort it took for them to do that, and what it personally means to you. So, Ivan and BNI, here it goes. You reserved time for me to do a podcast especially, really, within a couple weeks of the release of my new book, Just Listen. So that’s very special in terms of getting the word out. In terms of the effort it took, I think that you’re protective of your audience. You want to give them things that are valuable, and so you actually trust that I’ll be able to serve your audience as opposed to wasting their valuable time. And then the third thing, what it personally means to me is, when you’re pursuing ideas and you’re forging new journeys in your life, you hope they’ll help people, but they’re kind of like when you give birth to a baby; you hope it’s intelligent and beautiful, but you just don’t know. And so just the fact that you have this confidence in me really empowers me and emboldens me to keep doing that. So use those power thank you’s in your life, and it will only enhance it.

Ivan:
And it’s something, I think, perfect for a BNI member, because we really talk a lot about the importance of positive reinforcement in the relationships, and I appreciate your comments. Thank you very much. You’re right, the content in these podcasts has to really serve BNI members, and I love your material, and I’m sure that they will feel the same way after they get exposed to it.

So if you don’t mind, let me jump in and ask you, I think, a really good opening question, and that is, why do you thinks it’s so important to listen in order to build a powerful personal network? One of the things I say is that a good networker has two good ears and one mouth, and uses them both proportionately. But you really talk about an active listening process, not just listening, but really connecting with people.

Mark:
Well, I think the reason being is that, let’s face it, we’re all anxious, and we’re getting even more so, given the current financial climate. And whenever people are anxious, they don’t listen, they shut down, and the problem is anxiety is contagious. And so when you’re coming from anxiety and desperately wanting to make a sale, it triggers anxiety in the other person. And if you ask yourself, “What are two things that lessen anxiety?” Well, when you are listened to, when someone lets you get something off your chest and then doesn’t get impatient with you and doesn’t shut you down, that reduces your anxiety when people listen and care. The second thing is, when you can let go of yourself and being preoccupied and listen to your customer or client for what’s really important to them and serving them, that will not only lessen their anxiety, but it will lessen your anxiety, because instead of coming from a position of selling and being afraid that you’ll lose the sale, you actually come from a position of serving them.

If people go to JustListenTheBook.com, there’s something called Free Resources. This is actually a video clip. It’s kind of funny. I talk about meeting with the CO, who actually was really right on target and needing my services. And what I talk about in the video clip is that there were ten times when I wanted to interrupt him to say something utterly brilliant, but that wouldn’t have served him at all. It would have just been to impress him. And I had this inner conflict, and I can see you chuckling, Ivan, as a kindred spirit, and I said to myself, “Ooh, if I don’t tell him this brilliant thing, I’m going to lose it, even if it ruins the conversation.” And on ten occasions, at the moment I wanted to interrupt him, instead of doing that, I said, “Hey, tell me more about what you just said.”

What was fascinating is every time I said that, it’s almost like he picked up that I was just about to compete with him and chose not to; he went deeper into the conversation and deeper and deeper about what he really needed. And then at the end of those ten times, I just reviewed what he said, and I said, “Is that right?”

And he said, “Yes.” And then he looked at me, and he said, “When can you start?”

Ivan:
Nice, nice. Well done. I wanted to interrupt you two or three times myself, so I’m not going to do that.

Mark:
Okay.

Ivan:
Let me ask you a question. What distinguishes world class listeners from the average listener out there?

Mark:
Well, I think world class listeners realize that they can’t succeed by themselves, and so world class listeners have less of a need to be right and less of a need to win than to move the process of the conversation forward to something that has a mutually satisfying, productive end. So I think they come from a position of literally caring instead of winning, and they’ve had enough experiences that caring in the end will help them win.

It’s interesting. I wanted to call the book Just Care, because a number of people said, “You know, Mark, this isn’t just a book about listening; it’s a book about caring.” And then my publisher said, “Hey, Mark, if you write Just Care, there’s a lot of people who don’t care, and they’re not going to read it. You might be able to get in under the radar if you say Just Listen, and what people will discover in your book is, they’ll discover ways to actually show caring, not only in their business but in their personal life. What they’re going to actually experience is greater success, greater success and fulfillment and satisfaction, and be able to get to the end of their life and say that was a life well lived.

Ivan:
For the listeners here, we’re talking about Mark’s latest book called Just Listen. The forward was by Keith Ferrazzi. It’s a great book. I have it sitting right in front of me, and I really try to limit the number of books I talk about on these podcasts, because I don’t use these podcasts just to go out and market books. I think this book is perfect for BNI members because it fits our philosophy of Givers Gain, caring, and about the importance of listening.

So the Web site that Mark mentioned was JustListenTheBook.com, and there’s a lot of free stuff of there that our members can go to.

We’re running out of time, and I’ve got so many questions for you, Mark. Can you tell me, what do you think are the biggest mistakes that a networker can do regarding listening?

Mark:
Well, I think the biggest mistake is they don’t manage their anxiety, meaning your anxiety causes you to become pushy, causes you to sort of smile insincerely, and causes you to not listen. I think if you can have the experience of getting where the other person is coming from and caring about them when you get there, what you’re going to feel is they’re more likely to listen to you and let you take them to where you’d like them to go.

Ivan:
In your book, you talk about some tips, like the power of hmmm and fill in the blanks or the impossibility question. What are you talking about? I think those were really interesting. I think the members might find them of value.

Mark:
Well, in the interest of time, and then people can certainly look and find more, the fill in the blank one is, when you talk to people, when you ask people a question, even if it’s a question as simple like, “What are your goals,” people get flashbacks of being put on the spot about “What was the capital of North Dakota.” By the way, I was told in a talk it’s Bismarck; I didn’t know that. But people will get a flashback of having been interrogated. And if you change the question from “What are your goals for this year; what are you trying to accomplish” to “Your goals for this year are” and then you invite them with your hand as if to invite them to fill in the sentence with you. What you will feel is a different energy as if you’re inviting them into a conversation with you as opposed to interrogating them, where even though it’s a reasonable question, they’re likely to get defensive.

So in your store, if you’re talking to a customer or client who’s looking around, say, “What you’re looking for today is…” And you’ll see they will naturally fill in what that word is, and then you keep leading with that. “And the reason you’re looking for that today…the reason you were thinking of purchasing that today was…” “Oh, I see.” “And the things that you’re looking for, the qualities that are most important about that service or product to you are…” “Oh, I see that also.”

Can you see how that has a different energy feel than just machine gunning people with questions?

Ivan:
Absolutely. Nice. And I talk a lot about the importance of questions when you’re meeting people. Especially meeting them the first time or you want to go deeper in the relationship, learn how to refer them, and the questions are really, really important. So I love this content.

We’re almost out of time. On the Web site that we mentioned, JustListenTheBook.com, you’ve got a lot of free resources that BNI members can use. Two of them were really intriguing, and I wonder if you could just maybe summarize them quickly. Two questions to gain people’s respect and have them treat you better, and two questions to delegate effectively. The first one, in particular, I think may be relevant to BNI. Do you want to explain that?

Mark:
Yeah, because I’ll tell you, when people trust you, they’ll listen to you, but when people respect you, they’ll trust you and do what you ask them to do. So this is especially helpful in the service business. What you say to the other person is, and you don’t say it out of the gate, but in your conversation, say, “Do I have your permission to step in and protect you from anything or anyone that might do you harm financially?” or whatever service you’re providing.

Most people will say yes; 50% of people will laugh and say, “Thank you.”

And then what you say is, “In the event that the person I most need to protect you from is you, how shall I go about doing that?”

And most people, again, just like you do, because you probably need some protection, Ivan, will say, “Take me aside because I am capable of shooting myself in the foot and all the toes go all over the room. So take me aside because I don’t want to make some of the mistakes I’m capable of making.” And so you repeat that back to them, but can you see the power of that?

Ivan:
I can, absolutely, yeah. No question about that.

Listen, Mark, we’ve gone over time. I’d really like to talk to you more. Can we do a second podcast next week to cover a little bit more material? I particularly want to talk about the transactional versus transformational material you have in the book.

Mark:
Let’s do that. I’d love to do that.

Ivan:
All right. So for the BNI members listening today, we’re going to continue this conversation in our podcast next week.

Mark, thank you so much for coming on.

Dr. Mark Goulston, author of the book Just Listen. I don’t recommend very many books on BNI podcast. I really recommend this. A lot of free resources. Go to JustListenTheBook.com.

Priscilla, back to you. Thank you very much.

Priscilla:
Thank you both very much. That was really interesting. I look forward to next week.

I’d like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com which is the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you’ll join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

In this episode, Dr. Misner wants to talk about learning to rely on the people who respect, admire, and love you. Who are these people? Members of your support network fall into 8 categories.

1. Your mentors
2. People you have mentored
3. People you have helped
4. Your co-workers, colleagues, associates, classmates
5. Your family and close friends
6. Other members of non-business groups
7. Your former managers, supervisors, and instructors
8. Spiritual leaders and advisors

Is there anyone you would add to this list? Share your experiences with your support network in the comments on the blog.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 123 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables.

I’m Priscilla Rice, and I’m coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, California, and I am joined on the phone today by the founder and the chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner.

Hello, Ivan. How are you?

Ivan:
I am doing great, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
What are you going to share with us today?

Ivan:
Today I am going to talk about your support network, the people who help you and support you in any number of ways.

Priscilla:
Great.

Ivan:
Whether you are a master networker or you are new to networking, we all face challenging situations at times, and sometimes we need to rely on the help and encouragement of others. I am a big believer of learning to rely on the people who respect, admire, and love you. Theirs are the purest motives for helping you, they are genuinely interested in you, mostly accepting of you, and will usually do what they can to help you achieve any goals.

Now, they may not have all the knowledge or information you need or the ability to bring you new clients, but if you direct their willing efforts, they can give you emotional, physical, spiritual, financial support. The gifts of time can be a really valuable resource, and members of your support component can help you at crucial times of your business. They can perform essential tasks; they can encourage you, work with you, help you deal with an emergency, serve as a sounding board for your ideas.

I have seen that in BNI a lot. Even fill in for you for a couple of hours if you need them for something. To make the most of this resource, it is important to learn about their talents, their knowledge, and contacts that these friends and supporters may have to offer. I wanted to take a few minutes to categorize your support network members, who they are.

Priscilla:
Okay.

Ivan:
There are eight of them in total. The first one is your mentors. People who are or who have been your mentors, generally believe in you, care about you and your success, and can be counted on for honest feedback and encouragement.

The second, people you have taught or mentored. These people are usually excited to hear from you and will remind you about how much they appreciate your support. They also open doors to business opportunities by constantly spreading positive word-of-mouth about you.

The third is people you have helped. People remember people who have done something for them. So can you identify people to whom you have donated money, time, or other gifts? They’ll also go out of their way to help support you when you need it.

The fourth is your coworkers, colleagues, associates, and/or classmates. Friends you have made in the course of your school and your career are often friends for life. You know, like and respect each other. Of course, you may have been reluctant to call upon a friend for help because you don’t want to admit you need it, but don’t let your ego get in the way. Use these sources. A true friend will be eager to help and won’t think any less of you nor make you feel diminished for asking.

Five, your family and close friends. I talk about this one in the 29% Solution. You may take your family and personal friends for granted, but they are perhaps your most reliable source of support. Keep in mind, however, that some may be more reliable than others.

Number six, other members of non-business groups. These are people who you have worked with outside of business, members of Neighborhood Watch groups, apartment associations, community youth programs, people that may be willing to support you in activities outside the group’s normal scope. Join, participate, donate generously your time, money, let others help you and your endeavors, people who you have known in other non-business groups.

Your former managers, supervisors, and instructors, number seven. These people are often familiar with your work habits, your ethics, your values, your character, abilities, interests. They know what it takes to get your to perform at your highest level. Often, like surrogate parents, they feel responsible for your success. Should you take advantage of this parental instinct? Of course. Work with people who have mentored you in the past.

And eighth, any spiritual leaders or church leaders that you may have, members of organizations that you belong to that are spiritual in nature. If you belong to a religious organization, you are bonded to each other through that shared faith. It would be a mistake not to seek the backing of these leaders or other member. If, on occasion, you need them, don’t hesitate to use the support of services and groups like that.

Those are the eight categories of support network members that I think members of BNI should consider, and anyone who is trying to build a network should consider if you have some challenges and you need feedback or help in some way. Think about the people who might fit into these categories. They are great people to be part of your support network.

Priscilla:
Great, Dr. Misner. Thank you. Is there anything special that you would like to add to that?

Ivan:
I think if we had some BNI members who have listened to this podcast, I would love for them to add to this list, either experiences that they have had in one of these eight or if they think there is one I missed. I would love for them to share that with the other members here in the Comments section of the podcast. Thanks, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you.

Well, I think that is the end of this podcast. I’d like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables. Thanks so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you’ll join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

This week Dr. Misner describes a unique experience: a meeting about storytelling. Academy Award-winning movie producer Peter Guber invited about 16 people, including Dr. Misner and individuals such as Warren Bennis, one of the world’s foremost experts on leadership; Keith Ferrazzi, author of Never Eat Alone; and Mark Victor Hansen, co-author of the Chicken Soup for the Soul series, as well as many other “storytellers” from various businesses, backgrounds and areas of expertise.

One lesson particularly appropriate to BNI is that “What if?” is more powerful in a story than “How to.” Make your messages personal and concrete. Think about this next time you give a presentation at a BNI meeting.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 065 -

Priscilla Rice:
Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Official BNI Podcast brought to you by networkingnow.com, the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I’m Priscilla Rice and I’m coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, California. I’m joined on the phone today by the founder and the chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you doing?

Ivan Misner:
I’m doing great, Priscilla. I went to a meeting just recently, that I’m going to be talking about in this podcast. It was one of the most unusual meetings I’ve ever been to. This being said by the founder of an organization that meets every week and has 5000 groups around the world. That says a lot — to go to a meeting that’s one of the most unique I’ve ever been to.

Priscilla:
What was so unique about it?

Ivan:
It was a meeting about story telling. When I got invited, I wrote back and I said, “Tell me a little more about what this is.” I was invited by Peter Guber who is the CEO of Mandalay Entertainment. He’s the past CEO of Sony Corporation and he hosted this event. Peter is an Academy Award winning producer of movies including Rain Man, The Color Purple, and Bat Man. He wanted to put together a day about story telling and how story telling makes an impact not only in peoples personal life through movies, but also in peoples professional lives through business. The person who was facilitating the process is a good friend of mine, Keith Ferrazzi. Keith wrote the book, Never Eat Alone, who I talk about in my latest book, 29 Percent Solution, which is going to come out in a couple of months. Keith was facilitating it and he recommended to Peter that I come to this. So I attended this meeting recently, which was amazing.

Peter Guber is clearly passionate about the power of story telling and considers it the ‘secret sauce’ that has enabled him to achieve his success in life. He decided to create this opportunity for a diverse group of experts to come together to exchange ideas, and be inspired and enlightened. He invited about 16 people including yours truly, myself, along with people like Warren Bennis. Warren is one of the world’s foremost experts on leadership. When we get towards the end, I would love to talk some more about Warren, an amazing man who I haven’t seen in a long time. A great guy. If you pick up any book on leadership, any major book on leadership, and look in the index, you will see his name in it. He’s an amazing guy. Of course Keith Ferrazzi, author of Never Eat Alone, and Mark Victor Hansen who was a co-author of Chicken Soup For The Soul, as well as more than a dozen other story tellers from various businesses, backgrounds and areas of expertise.

Basically, this group found that, or talked about the fact that, effective story telling is an important part of one’s emotional intelligence– emotional intelligence. I’ve always believed in using stories to make a point, but I’ve never really given a lot of thought, of some of the how’s and why’s of their effectiveness. There were a number of take aways for me from this meeting that I want to share with BNI members around the world. Here are a couple. Storytelling is about tapping into a passion about some topic. It’s about taking the listener to a place that is visceral, visual, concrete, emotional and possibly unexpected. Now this is important for members to understand when they’re doing their 60 second presentations, and when they’re doing their 10 minute presentations. If they can make those presentations more visceral, visual, concrete, emotional and unexpected, they’re going to be a lot more effective.

One of the participants, a gentleman who I’m getting to know really well, a great guy, Dr. Mark Goulston, said that a story is a portable storage unit for one’s dreams, fears, hopes, humor and sorrows that people visit or visits people from time to time, for them to stay in contact with their humanity. The group loved that definition and I really love it too. A story is a portable storage unit for one’s dreams, fears, hopes, humor and sorrows that people visit or visits people from time to time, for them to stay in contact with their humanity.

Mark Victor Hansen, who’s one of the co-authors for Chicken Soup Of The Soul, said that when the authors were working on the Chicken Soup series, they were looking for stories that gave people God-bumps or goose-bumps. I love that– God-bumps or goose-bumps, happy tears, a change in perception, weakness in the knees, or a change in your life. I think one of the best comments of the day came from Peter Guber who said, ” ‘What if ‘ is more powerful than ‘how to’ in a story”. Now that is really appropriate to BNI. ‘ What if ‘ is more powerful than ‘how to’. If BNI members can talk about ‘what if ‘ rather than ‘how to’ they’re really going to connect with other members more effectively. I think that’s very true indeed.

Priscilla:
Can you give us an example of that?

Ivan:
Well, it’s really an example of benefits versus features. I once was talking to an attorney in a chapter. We were having a little brainstorming session, and the attorney said, “I don’t know what to talk about. I’m an attorney. I’m a divorce lawyer. What can I talk about? I help people get divorced.” One of the members said, “You know what? You helped me sleep better at night. I knew that my life was going to be OK because of you.” That’s a ‘what if ‘ rather than a ‘how to’. He could talk about the specifics of what he does, but to talk about how he can help people get through difficult times, through the services he provided, was much more powerful than talking about the details of the process. Just off the top of my head, that ‘s one that jumps out at me, ‘what if’ rather than ‘how to’. There are so many examples. Anybody who sits down and thinks about what’s the benefit of what I do rather than the features of what I do. I think you can come up with a great example of what I’m talking about.

After we spent an entire day talking about what it takes to make a good story, I think I verified the fact, that it’s really difficult to describe to someone how to tell a good story. But, when you hear a good story, you sure know it. The more you can build into your presentation examples that are, as they talk about, visceral and concrete and personal, the more powerful your message is. I urge members to make their messages personal and to tell good stories when they’re doing their presentation.

Priscilla:
I think that’s great advice. Maybe you could do a whole podcast on story telling in itself, like how you put together a good story.

Ivan:
Yes, we should probably do that. I mentioned Warren Bennis earlier. Let me give just one last thing to talk about before we wrap up. Professor Bennis was actually on my doctoral committee when I was a doctoral student at the University of Southern California. It was awesome to see Professor Bennis again. What was really amazing, I have to tell you, it felt really good to see him in a completely different context. Because, when I was a doctoral student, I have to tell you, he was tough. Here’s a bit of advice for anyone whoever goes on to do a graduate degree. If you’re going to do a graduate degree, and one of your areas of specialty, (one of my areas of specialty was leadership), never put one of the world’s leading experts in the field on the doctoral committee. No matter what you say, you’ll never be anywhere near as good as they were. Professor Bennis was tough on me when I was a student. It was really incredible to go back to this event, meet him again more as peer than a student. What a wonderful human being this guy is. He’s very giving, very interesting and absolutely one of the world’s experts on leadership. It was a pleasure to see him again and to talk to him in a different context.

Priscilla:
Great. Well, Dr. Misner, we may have come to the end of this podcast. Is there anything else you would like to share with us?

Ivan:
Just that, BNI members, think about how you can address some of these concepts that I gave here today in making your stories interesting. I truly believe that it’s not about the ‘how to” in your business, I really think it’s the ‘what if ‘. It’s what you have to offer and the stories that carry along, particularly case studies that you might be able to give about how you can help other people. I think that’s what makes anything powerful. For any of the listeners who have heard me do a presentation, I always integrate stories into my talk. That’s what really carries the message to other people. Think about that as you do your presentations, because it will make a huge difference.

Priscilla:
Okay great. I just want to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by networkingnow.com, the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thanks so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of the Official BNI Podcast.

This week, Priscilla Rice interviews Dr. Ivan Misner about being out of line online. After receiving a completely inappropriate message from a stranger attacking a new member of one of the online networks he belongs to, Dr. Misner wrote an impassioned blog post and got 43 comments. Here are some highlights.

• The impersonal nature of online communications sometimes leads people to behave in ways they could never get away with in person!
• Even though you may feel very powerful because you can say things in e-mail and send it out to many people it doesn’t mean that you should or that it’s appropriate to do so!
• If this individual behaved like this at an “in-person” meeting, he’d likely be thrown out!
• Don’t tolerate this kind of behavior, online or off.
• Always consider the source when you encounter this kind of character assassination.

Read Dr. Misner’s post about being Out of Line Online at Entrepreneur.com

Listen to Priscilla Rice’s interview with Dr. Misner on Priscilla’s Podcast.

Brought to you by Networking Now. Podcast produced by Live Oak Studio in conjunction with the Podcast Asylum.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 029 -

Priscilla Rice:
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the official BNI podcast, brought to you by networkingnow.com, the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. This is Priscilla Rice coming from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, California, and I’m joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. How are you, Ivan?

Ivan Misner:
I’m doing great, Priscilla. It’s wonderful having you handle our podcasts now. Thanks.

Priscilla:
This is an exciting moment for me as I am a long time BNI member.

Ivan:
Yes, and as a matter of fact, you and I did a podcast once before. You should put on this podcast a link to the podcast that I did with you.

Priscilla:
I’ll do that. Prescilla’s podcast. So where are you calling in from today, Ivan?

Ivan:
From BNI headquarters this week. Next week, I will be out of town but now I’m here in BNI headquarters in southern California.

Priscilla:
Great. I understand the you have a very interesting topic to share with us today.

Ivan:
I think it is. It actually comes from a blog that I started doing just recently for entrepreneur.com. Listeners can go to the blog .It’s called Networking Now at entrepreneur.com. It’s called “Out of Line Online”. That is the blog title that I want to talk about today. The URL is www.networkingentrepreneur.com. If listeners want to go read the blog directly, they can do that. This week I want to talk about out of line online.

Prescilla:
What does that mean exactly?

Ivan:
You know, I belong to a number of online networks. Linked in, Ryze, etc. My favorite is ecademy.com. We have a strategic alliance with them- great organization.

I recently got an e-mail from one of the members of these online networks. I don’t know this guy. I’ve never talked to him and have never directly connected to him in any way. I don’t know why he sent the letter. He sent me an e-mail, and he had sent it to many people in the community. It was about a new person who would destroy the community. In the e-mail, he said to me, a perfect stranger to him, “Letting her joint was the biggest mistake you’ll ever make. She’s a disaster. She’s totally unreliable. She’s a total liar. You have been caught.”

I said, “Wow.” I was amazed that this stranger would sent me this e-mail. The thing is that the impersonal nature of online communications sometimes leads people to behave in ways that they could never get away with in person. There are social morays that are easily bypassed when you are not looking someone in the eyes.

Whether you are dealing with face to face networking or online networking, the basics of etiquette and emotional intelligence still apply. You have to be aware that when you’re communicating on the internet, you are still dealing with real people. Even though you may feel really powerful because you can say things and send them out a lot of people, it doesn’t mean you should or that it’s appropriate to do so. I’m sure you’ve seen something like this. It happens all the time.

Priscilla:
I have seen that. I’ve also seen sometimes people put in capitalization statements they are making in the e-mail and it makes it kind of intense when you read it. It’s maybe a bit more than what they intended.

Ivan:
Yes. And sometimes through an e-mail, you just don’t get the inflection and things do come across the way they may not be meant. This guy meant it. He was quite clear. A lot of people don’t know that when you put these in caps, you’re supposed to be yelling or raising your voice, so they may do it by accident.

This was no accident with this guy. On the blog, this is probably the most aggressive I have ever been about any writing that I have ever published. Right on the blog, I said that the ignoramus who sent me this e-mail would never have this if he had to talk about this person personally to all the people including all the strangers that he emailed. But he could do it behind the relative safety of the internet and unfortunately, that’s one of the weaknesses of this powerful medium.

Priscilla:
And I heard that some of the people on your block commented on your entry. What did they say?

Ivan:
They had a lot of things to say. One last point before we go to them, if this individual talked like that in an in-person meeting, they would throw his butt out of that meeting so fast. But online he can get away with it because I think people have just become so disconnected with reality that they get this false sense of power.

I did get a lot of comments. As a matter of fact, I have more comments on this one blog than any other blog that I have done. One of the last ones that was posted as hysterical because in my blog, I say that I responded to this guy and I said to him, “I don’t know who you are. And I don’t know who this is that you’re talking about. The e-mail that you are sending me tells me a lot about you, and I don’t want this kind of slanderous communication.”

I was really surprised at his response. In his response he said, “I don’t know who you are, and I don’t talk to nobodies.”

Of course, the first thing I did was say, “I don’t think I’m a nobody.”

Then all of a sudden, I thought maybe it’s good to be a nobody to a nutcase like this. One of the responses was that you sometimes feel like a nobody until a batty responds to you or something like that. I thought that was really hysterical. There were a lot of great responses. I don’t know if you had a chance to take a look at it yourself.

Prescilla:
I did look at it.

Ivan:
Almost everyone said that this behavior was appalling and that it would be completely unacceptable. There were a number of BNI people who responded said that in an organization with a code of ethics, this kind of behavior would never be tolerated and that’s what you can get away with online.

Priscilla:
Did the person that he wrote badly about say anything to you?

Ivan:
I didn’t know her. I didn’t pass it on her because I knew for a fact that it would be passed on to her, and it was. Somebody told me that it was. I was really impressed, as was the person who passed on to her, with her response. She took it very well and basically said, “Consider the source. I’m sorry that you had to receive that.” She handled it very, very professionally which again tells me a lot about her- and a lot about him.

Priscilla:
I’m glad she didn’t take offense because it can be very painful to receive something like that, to have people talk about you in that way, in a negative way and out into the public.

Ivan:
You’re right. One of the respondents on the blog said don’t mud wrestle with a pig. You’ll only end up muddy- and besides, the pig likes it. I thought this was great.

I would love to have any of the listeners to the podcast go to the blog. It is called “Out of Line Online”. That particular blogs admission went up on October 30. Take a look at networkingentrepreneur.com and “Out of Line Online”.I would love to see your comments on that as well. Even though in BNI we’re not about online networking, I do think online networking is a powerful tool. I recommend it to members. To take a look at the blog when you get a chance.

Priscilla:
Great. Thank you so much, Ivan, for that. I think it’s a very important message. and I think that there are probably a lot of listeners out there who’ve had bad experiences in the past who might want to share what they have been through with you on the blog.

Ivan:
Thank you, Priscilla.

Prescilla:
Anything else you’d like to add before we close?

Ivan:
No, just if you get a chance, go to the blog. I would love to hear your feedback on this. I think the listeners will enjoy taking a look not only at the blog but at all of the responses. I am sure that almost all of us have experienced something similar to this.

Priscilla:
Great. Thanks, Ivan. This podcast has been brought to you by networkingnow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. This is Prescilla Rice and we will see you next week on the official BNI podcast with Dr. Ivan Misner. Thanks so much.