Today Linda Macedonio, Executive Director of BNI Rhode Island/SE Mass, joins Dr. Misner to explain why bigger is better for your BNI chapter.

In one region of Massachusetts, the average of the top 5 chapters was over 50 members and the average business generated per member was $34,000. The average size of the  bottom 5 chapters was 19 members and the average amount of money generated per member was 12,000.

Chapters that double their size consistently triple the number of  referrals in their group.

So why does this work? It has to do with the 80/20 rule.

Chapters with fewer than 25 members spend 80% of their time inviting and recruiting new members just to stay alive and only 20% on building relationships and passing referrals. Groups with more than 25 members can spend 80% of their time on passing referrals.

Larger chapters also have more and stronger power teams, so one referral can go to multiple people.

Let us know how much business your chapter is generating and how big it is.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 239 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. How are you and where are you?

Ivan:
Hi Priscilla. This week, I am in Hawaii, visiting the BNI region here and doing a presentation for the new book that came out. We have with us a guest from the other side of the country. She is from Rhode Island. Her name is Linda Macedonio. Linda, welcome to the podcast today.

Linda:
Thank you very much.

Ivan:
Linda has been an Executive Director in Rhode Island and Massachusetts since 1998. She became involved in BNI as a member first. Almost all Directors were members first. She was representing her bookkeeping business. She currently oversees about 60 chapters and 1500 members. Over the years, BNI has helped her overcome her shyness. Linda is very nervous for this. She was a contributing author to Masters of Networking. If you have a copy of that book, she did the shy bookkeeper piece in that book. She’s also a contributing author to Masters of Sales. Linda really enjoys helping people in BNI and helping them achieve success. She is a great Director for the organization.

Linda, welcome to the podcast. You have an interesting topic. Bigger is better. Do you care to explain that to everybody?

Linda:
I would be happy to. As BNI Directors, oftentimes, we are talking to chapters and to members about growing their chapter. Sometimes we actually get feedback where they think we want them to grow the chapter to help BNI and this presentation was actually designed by Reed Morgan in Tennessee. It makes the point that when a chapter is larger, it is helping the members more than it is helping BNI as a whole.

What we did is we ran some number showing the financial return on investments for the members and kind of showing them by numbers that it is a numbers game and that bigger really is better.

Ivan:
You have some numbers that you are going to share with everybody, right?

Linda:
I do. I want to clarify that even though we talk about the chapter and the numbers, it’s never sacrificing the quality of the membership and the system just for the sake of a larger chapter.

Ivan:
Listen, you bring up a really good point. It’s not just about the number of people, the number of warm bodies, but quality people. You have to be focused on bringing in quality members into the organization. Otherwise these numbers don’t hold up, unless you are talking about quality people.

Linda:
Absolutely. We share that information as well. We do have some data from a few regions. One particular region, looking from the top 5 chapters and looking at the bottom 5 chapters of that region. The average of the top 5 was over 50 members per chapter. It was about 18 or 19 members in the smaller chapter. The difference in the amount of money generated per member per year is tripled. It’s under $12,000 per year for a member in the smaller chapters for the money that they are making compared to almost $34,000 per member per year in the larger chapters.

Ivan:
Let’s just recap that for everybody. I think it is important for people to hear this. This is a region in Massachusetts where they top five chapters in that region, a big area, the average number of members is about 50 members per chapter. They were tracking the amount of business they got, and they tracked that the average amount of business per member was almost $34,000. The bottom five chapters in that same region averaged about 18.5 members, and their average was under $12,000 per member. It was almost 3 times difference, certainly over two times the difference between the top five chapters and the bottom five chapters.

I think that is probably indicative of many regions. I think in your region, the numbers are similar, at least twice the amount of business is generated in a group that has 30-40 members compared to a group that is around 15 members. Is that your experience?

Linda:
It has been. There is another statistic with that regarding visitors. In the larger chapters, they have about 2.5 times the number of visitors come to their chapter. That is additional exposure for the member. Visitors will oftentimes make referrals of themselves or others. I think that also contributes to the amount of money that the members are making.

Ivan:
This has been a consistent number from the beginning of the organization, that chapters double their size from 15 to 30 will triple the amount of referrals that are generated in the group. That is a pretty consistent number over the years. Having dollar numbers to go with it, like you have done, and Patty tracking in Boston and Reed tracking his numbers, I think just gives credence to what we are saying in that bigger truly is better, as long as the bigger is quality members. Yeah?

Linda:
That’s true.

Ivan:
You have a few reasons why you think this works. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Linda:
I do. I think most people have heard of the 80/20 rule. This actually can apply in this case as well. Typically chapters that are under 25 members will spend about 80% of their time on inviting and recruiting and in some cases, just for the chapter to stay alive. Then only 20% of the time is spent passing referrals. To flip that, chapters that are over 25 spend about 80% on building the relationship, passing the referrals, generating the dollars and 20% of the time on inviting or recruiting.

Ivan:
That makes sense to me.

Linda:
Yeah, I think that kind of speaks volumes in where the focus is depending on the size of the chapter. Another piece with that is the contact spheres, it really does make everything easier for generating referrals and business. Again, bigger is better in that regard.

Ivan:
For contact spheres, we use the terms, both contact spheres and power teams in BNI. Contact spheres is a group of professionals who have a symbiotic relationship with each other, just for the listeners, in case you don’t know- like a lawyer, an accountant, a financial planner. They all refer business to each other. Contact spheres is the group of professionals who could potentially be symbiotic to you.

The power teams are the groups of business professionals that you have a relationship with. Within BNI, you are going to have a formed power team. The point I think you are trying to make, Linda, is the more power teams you have in a group, the more successful that chapter is going to be in generating referrals. Correct?

Linda:
Correct. We have actually noticed that it seems that probably close to 70% of the business that is being done in a chapter, especially with the stronger contact spheres and power teams, are coming from within their own power team or contact sphere.

Ivan:
You know, one of the reasons for this is that sometimes one referral can be for two people. If you have a really strong power team, and you’re talking about a wedding power team, if somebody comes in with a referral for somebody who is getting married, that may be able to go to the caterer, the florist, the photographer. It might go to two or three people. Sometimes one referral can go to two, three or four people. The stronger your chapter, the bigger the group, the more likely you are to have power teams that are bigger, where one referral can go to multiple people. That is one of the reasons why you see that. There is a real logical reason for the increase in the amount of business generated.

Linda:
Absolutely. That is exactly what we found. It comes down to working smarter, not harder, and that there is strength in numbers.

Ivan:
Listen, I think you have given a pretty compelling argument on the return of investment, what’s in it for a member to bring a chapter up. We talked about groups of 30, 40 or 50 members. It’s really at 20 members where there seems to be a critical mass point, where things start to come together. When you get groups that are around 30 or 40 members, that’s when the numbers begin to almost grow exponentially. Would you not agree?

Linda:
I would agree. One way to look at it as well is every member is attending a 90 minute meeting. Would you rather make $12,000 or $34,000?

Ivan:
I think most people would rather make $34,000. No doubt about it. Groups that have that size membership are definitely doing that. This is really helpful information, Linda. Is there anything that you would like to add before we wrap up?

Linda:
No, I think we have pretty much covered everything. I appreciate you having me on the podcast.

Ivan:
Listen, it’s my pleasure having you on. You’re a great Director for the organization and I think you are one of those classic examples of somebody who has come into BNI and was nervous about standing up and doing presentations, as you were. Yes?

Linda:
You knew me when.

Ivan:
And you now stand up and do public presentations at BNI conferences. You have done this podcast. It’s one of the things that I really love about BNI. You see people who develop a skill set that maybe a few years ago, they didn’t think they would ever want to or could do. I think you are sort of the poster child for that in the organization.

Linda:
Well, thank you.

Ivan:
Well, listen, we really appreciate what you do, Linda. This was great information. For those of you listening, just a recap. Groups that are 40-50 members are passing two to three times the amount of business and generating two to three times the amount of referrals. It isn’t just in these two or three regions that we are talking about. It’s multiple regions. It’s all over the world. It’s a consistent number. Linda, thanks for bringing that to our attention. We appreciate it.

Linda:
Thank you very much.

Ivan:
If you are listening to this podcast and you’ve had a similar experience, we would love to hear your comments. Drop us a note here on bnipodcast.com and let us know how much business you’re generating and what the size of your BNI chapter is. Thanks a lot. Priscilla, back to you.

Priscilla:
Okay great. Thank you so much, Linda, and thank you, Dr. Misner. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

We mentioned exit interviews in Episode 222; in this episode, Dr. Misner explains how exit interviews came to BNI.

Many years ago a terrific BNI member, someone who really seemed to love BNI, quit unexpectedly. Dr. Misner designed an exit interview and found out that the real reason the member was leaving was because another member had behaved unethically. The membership committee confronted this other member and removed the person from the chapter, allowing the first member to stay.

Here are some of the questions in an exit interview:

• What are your reasons for leaving?
• Did you find that BNI was beneficial to you?
• What did you like most about BNI?
• Was there anything you disliked about BNI? If so, what was it and how would you change it?
• Did you feel you were well-informed about the activities and benefits of BNI?
• Did you meet for lunch with other members of the group? How often?

Take this podcast to your leadership team. And download your own copy of “The Significance and Value of the Exit Interview” below.

Download (PDF, 209.89KB)

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 230 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I come to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you and where are you?

Ivan:
Hi Priscilla. This week I am at the international BNI conference in Long Beach. I talked about it in last week’s podcast. We have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people coming here now. The conference starts tomorrow. We do this every year. It’s like going to a UN conference. It’s really an amazing experience. Members are welcome to come on the member’s day, which is on Friday every year. So just look at BNI.com in November of every year and if a BNI member anywhere in the world would like to come, you are welcome. We had somebody from Africa come last year.

Priscilla:
Wow. I know it’s very interesting to meet all of the people from all over the world. It gives you a real sense of how big the organization is.

Ivan:
It really does. No question about it. Today I am going to talk about the value of exit interviews. I thought I would start with a couple of things. First of all, I made reference to an exit interview in episode 222, Why Do People Leave? So if you have a chance and are listening to this podcast and you have not listened to episode 222, I think it goes hand in glove with this podcast. So take a look at that.

In that podcast, I talked about the fact that we started doing exit interviews a number of years ago, but I don’t think I gave the story about how they came about. So I thought I would open it up with this story as to how exit interviews began. What happened was that we had somebody quit a chapter and they were a great member. They seemed very, very happy. They really seemed to like the organization. So somebody said we should really ask them why. I said we should do an exit interview. They asked what that is. This is years ago, Priscilla, I couldn’t have had more than 40 chapters.

One of the kinds of things that I did as a management consultant was I designed exit interviews for companies. I said it was just a list of questions that you ask somebody when they leave. So I wrote this up for a specific member. I called him and said we are starting to do exit interviews. I didn’t want to say it was because he is leaving. That’s what I did. We were starting to do exit interviews. I just had a few questions. We asked why the person was leaving. I asked the question a couple of times in different ways. I found out, Priscilla, that the person was leaving because they were mad at another member.

Even though they said that business was really booming, business was great and they couldn’t handle it all, I found out that that wasn’t the real reason. The reason was that somebody else had kind of ripped him off in a chapter. That’s when I had an opportunity then to do some consulting, some mentoring. I said if they really wanted to leave because somebody has done something inappropriate? We should deal with that and not have you leave. He said he didn’t want to make a big deal out of it.

The thing about this guy was that I knew he was a real ethical person. I guilted him. I’ll be honest. I guilted him. I said, “If you leave, do you think this guy is going to do the same thine to someone else?” He said yes. I said, “ Then let’s do the right thing together and let me help you with the membership committee. Let’s bring this to the membership committee so that they know what happened and they can make a decision. The membership committee heard the issue and they removed the other person. So guess who stayed. The guy who was going to quit. It all started because of this exit interview.

In this podcast, I am going to review what the exit interview consists of. There is going to be a downloadable so that members can download this on their own, although this is available to leadership teams and directors. Any member can download this. I urge chapters to use this when you have people leaving. Not just anybody, but I recommend that you use it consistently in your chapter.

Priscilla:
I think it’s a great idea.

Ivan:
One of the things that we say is that the value of the exit interview is directors- but more than just directors, I think members can do this as well. I don’t recommend that it be any member. I recommend that it be the leadership team, somebody from the leadership team, or somebody from the membership committee. Anyone in authority who regularly performs exit interviews, there is a number of benefits. It allows the chapter to figure out if maybe this isn’t the right chapter.

Maybe a different chapter might work for them because of a personality conflict. It provides insight as to what a member’s impression is and how BNI can serve more effectively in terms of quality control. It can help chapters take ownership for the quality of their members and avert potential problems.

Exit interviews are a very powerful tool that I think are not utilized as much as they have been in the past in some reasons. I would urge you to have somebody in your group be responsible for doing exit interviews. Here is what the exit interview consists of. Then maybe, Priscilla, we can just chat for a few minutes if you have any questions.

The exit interview basically consists of you putting down who is interviewing, who you are interviewing and you ask them what is the reason for leaving? Do you mind telling me why you are leaving? What are the reason/s for leaving? Do you find that BNI is a benefit to your profession?

We found this in studies that we have done in the past that 20% of a chapter will leave for reasons that a chapter can’t control. I have talked about this in a previous podcast. Health problems, changing careers, moving- you are going to get 20% turnover, so if you have 40% turnover in your chapter, half of that is going to be for stuff that you can’t control. So when you ask if they feel it has been of benefit and they say yes, you find out maybe that they are leaving because of something that is really beyond your chapter’s control.

Ask them no matter what they said- whether they are leaving because they are unhappy or happy- what did you like most about BNI? Another question is was there anything that you disliked about BNI, and if so, what is it and how would you change it if you could? Did you feel that you were well informed on the benefits and activities offered to you by BNI?

Then there are five questions that are asked in the last question, sort of a yes or no. This gives you a sense of the kind of activity that the member engaged in, so if they say they didn’t get any business out of BNI, you can get a sense of whether they were engaged in the kind of activities that they needed to be in. For example, did you meet for lunch for other members of the group? Yes or no, and if so, roughly how many? Were you specific about expressing what a good referral for you was? Did you ask members if the referral you gave worked for them? Did you prepare your 60 second presentations? Did you feel you had good communication with your chapter and its members?

Really the idea is just to get people to open up and talk. Here’s and old- this isn’t in any other written material. I am going to give you and old technique as an old HR guy who has worked with human resources and studies and surveys. A concept called semantic differential questioning, when you basically ask the same question in different ways. Asking why somebody left using different words will oftentimes get different answers.

What was the reason for leaving? What was one of the most important factors in your decision to leave? You don’t do this one right after the other. You might do one in the beginning, throw another one in the middle and one at the very end. What’s the bottom line, Priscilla, on why you left? You only do that when you have somebody whom you think has another reason for leaving than what they are saying.

By using semantic differential questioning where you ask the same question in two or three different ways, I know it sounds silly, but you will get, many times, a different answer. When they say to you, you know what, you kind of asked that and they kind of answered that, then you are probably getting the answer that’s true. Again, I wouldn’t use that technique on everyone, but when you think you have someone who is not being completely candid for whatever reason, it’s a great way in an exit interview to get the bottom line, to get the information.

Knowledge is power. If you know why people are leaving, you can impact it. I highly recommend exit interviews, so go back and listen to episode 22 and put them together.

Priscilla:
Episode 222

Ivan:
Episode 222 will tie together with this episode. 22 was a long time ago.

Priscilla:
I want to just say a few things. One is that I think we definitely lost a very positive member due to something that was personal between members. He just did not want to deal with it. I think it’s really a shame because had perfect attendance, had been a member for years, and was a really great person. I think if we had done something like this, maybe we could have avoided it. He just felt really uncomfortable. He didn’t talk about what the reasoning was but it was definitely a conflict with another member. So I think it happens more often than you may think.

Ivan:
It does and people- oftentimes, there are a lot of reasons why they don’t talk about it. It may be that they just don’t want to cause waves. It might be that they don’t want to have a battle. It might be that they are just so frustrated that they don’t ever want to sit in the same room with the other person.

Priscilla:
I think it was that.

Ivan:
In a way, that is the wrong way because now you leave the person who created the problem in the chapter. Good people will do the right thing when you present it to them properly. Do you think that that person is going to do the same thing? They will often say yes. Then let’s do the right thing here and tell somebody about this.

Priscilla:
That’s a great idea. I am definitely going to take this back to my chapter and get it started because we have a very god chapter that is eight years old, but we are losing some of our newer members, so we have to figure out why.

Ivan:
That’s important. I recommend that everyone listening to this podcast, take this podcast to your leadership team. Tell your leadership team , “This is a podcast you need to listen to. I think this chapter should consider doing them.” Every chapter doesn’t need to do them. This is one of those techniques, Priscilla, where this is not BNI 101. This is BNI 401. If you don’t do this, it’s not the end of the world but if you have a really good chapter and you just want to make it better and you want to do some things- you’re already a good chapter and you want to get even better, this is a technique that really, really works.

Of course, it works on the chapters that are struggling as well, but it’s a little more complicated to deal with and it’s a little more commitment.

Priscilla:
Okay great, Ivan. I really like that.

Ivan:
Well, thanks a lot, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Okay I think that is it for this week. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

This show was originally broadcast as Episode 68.

Today’s podcast focuses on the theme “Taking the hard path often makes life easier, and taking the easy path often makes life harder.” When a BNI group takes the easy path and doesn’t hold members accountable, the chapter struggles. Groups that work hard to maintain attendance and quality referrals flourish. If you do the hard work up front, in the long run, it’s easier to keep your group going.

Ask yourself: Are you practicing hard/easy or easy/hard in your life? What about your BNI group? Share your experiences with taking the hard path or the easy path in the comments here.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 068 -

Priscilla Rice:
Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Official BNI Podcast brought to you by networkingnow.com, the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I’m Priscilla Rice and I’m coming to you from Live Oaks Recording Studio in Berkeley, California. I’m joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you?

Ivan Misner:
I’m doing great, Priscilla. Thank you.

Priscilla:
Where are you coming from today?

Ivan:
I’m in beautiful Vail, Colorado doing the podcast today. I’m at a meeting of the Transformational Leadership Council. TLC is a group put together by Jack Canfield, who is a co-author of the Chicken Soup For The Soul series. It’s made up of trainers and what he calls, thought leaders, helping to transform peoples lives in various ways. A few years ago, I was invited to participate in TLC. I’ve been a member, now a founding member of the organization, for the last three years or so.

Priscilla:
How many people are in that organization?

Ivan:
All together, there’s about one hundred people. Usually at the TLC Conferences you’ll get at least sixty to eighty people at the sessions. They are five days– lots of seminars, a lot programs that you hear. You may have seen the movie, The Secret. Half of the people in The Secret are members of TLC– A lot of truly transformational trainers in the program.

Priscilla:
That sounds great. What did you learn?

Ivan:
I picked up a lot of things, but there was one that just so perfectly fit BNI. I thought it would make a great podcast. I had an opportunity to sit in on a presentation by TLC member, Steven D’Annunzio. Steve talked about a lot of things, but there was one that really resonated with me. It was a discussion about taking the easy path or the hard path in the decisions that we make throughout life. He said something that I think fits BNI perfectly. He said,” taking the hard path often makes life easier, and taking the easy path often makes life harder.” I sat there and thought about how much that truly applies to BNI. I’ve seen some groups that take the easy path. They don’t hold members accountable for attendance, or quality referrals, following the system or general support of the group, because these things are in fact, hard to maintain. The real tragedy is that they may go on this path for a really long time, not being willing to take the hard steps necessary to build a successful BNI group. The results are inevitable; the chapter struggles. Taking the easy path leads to difficulty for the chapter.

On the other hand, I see so many groups that work hard to maintain attendance, maintain quality referrals, follow the system, and cultivate a positive attitude. This is really difficult to do consistently. It’s hard. However, the results here are also inevitable. These chapters tend to be much more successful. That’s why I’m calling this podcast, The Hard Path Is Easier. The groups that are willing to do the hard work necessary up front, tend to have a lot of success. In the long run, it’s really much, much easier. Truly, in BNI taking the hard path often makes business and life much easier and taking the easy path can make business and life much harder. Steve ended his presentation by asking, “are you practicing hard/easy or are you practicing easy/hard in your life?” I think that this concept is a powerful question with significant meaning to every BNI chapter. I think it would make a great discussion with fellow members here on this broadcast. So, if you’re listening to this podcast, I would love for you to talk a little bit about your experiences with taking the hard path or the easy path in BNI.

Priscilla:
That’s great. Do you have any other examples in your life or from your business experience?

Ivan:
Sure. I have teenage kids right now — one in college and one on her way to college and one preparing for college. That’s a great example of what I’m talking about. I am, of course, trying to coach my kids into going into college and being prepared for college. That is absolutely the hard path. Finishing high school and then going on for a college degree, it’s a lot of work for kids, but most people would agree, and certainly the statistics bear out that a young person with a college degree over the course of their lifetime, end up making substantially more money on average than those without a college degree.

I know, people always point to other really successful people without a degree, and they say this person–my favorite one is Bill Gates. Bill Gates doesn’t have a college degree. Bill Gates has 3 1/2 years of college from Harvard, so you can’t use Bill Gates as an example. He left early, but he came very close to finishing a college degree. He does in fact have a college [education]. That’s a great example of how taking the hard path can often times make life easier.

Priscilla:
That’s a great example. What do you think, is there anything else you would like to add?

Ivan:
No, I think this will do it. For those of you listening to the podcast, I would really, really like for you to find examples in your life, personally or professionally. We would love to hear and see on the messages here on the podcast, examples in your life where you did things hard that made things easier, or you did things easy and it made things hard. And particularly, if you have a great example, you don’t have to name names or name chapters. If you’re with a chapter that really follows the program and that makes for a great chapter or you found that you didn’t follow the program and the chapter struggled. I’ve seen a lot of chapters where they didn’t follow the program, it struggled and all of a sudden they decided they had to buckle down and do the hard work and then they created a great chapter. I would love to hear your story or read your story here at BNI.com. I ask you the listener to take a few moments and write something down. We want to see examples of this in real life.

Priscilla:
Thanks, Dr. Misner. That was very interesting. I would like to let the listeners know that this podcast was brought to you by networkingnow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thanks so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you’ll join us next week for another exciting episode of the Official BNI Podcast.

If your chapter seems to lose a lot of members, start doing exit interviews, and don’t just take the first exit. Use semantic differentiation to get at the real reasons. There’s an exit interview sample in the BNI director binder.

One of the biggest reasons people leave is a personality conflict within the group. If several people have had problems with a particular member, get rid of the problem member rather than losing the members who contribute more.

20% of turnover across chapters is due to factors beyond the control of the chapters. People move, retire, experience health problems or family crises. Many associations, even of fanatically loyal members, experience 40% turnover annually.

So how do you keep people in? Create an environment where people want to be. Focus on accountability and referrals, and you’ll keep turnover low.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 222 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you?

Ivan:
I am doing great and I am looking forward to this topic, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
You listed it as why do people leave, and I am just wondering. You are talking about BNI in this. Is this something that we should be worried about because people seem to leave and it’s true.

Ivan:
That’s a great question. The answer is yes, it should be something you should be cognizant of. I wouldn’t say “worried about” because sometimes it is good to have some people leave a group. But it is something that you want to be aware of, like in any organization.

Let me tell you where it came from. I was asked a question by an assistant director in BNI. His question was, “What do you think the number one reason is that people leave BNI?” That was his question to me.

I really can’t give you the number one reason. We have done some exit interviews and surveys in the past. I don’t have the numbers with me as to what the number one reason was. But I have a sense of one of the biggest reasons that people leave. It might surprise people. I will explain that in just a minute.

The first thing that I would recommend that chapters do if this is something that you want to focus on is start doing exit interviews when people leave. Ask people why they are leaving. By the way, don’t just take their first answer. Sometimes is it good- in interviews, there is what is called semantic differential questioning, where you basically ask the same question in a different way two or three times. What’s really interesting is that if you ask the question two or three times, you might get a real answer.

For example, here’s a real common one: “Business is so big. There is so much business that I can’t handle it all, so I am stepping down.” Okay, almost never believe that answer. It is almost never true. It is occasionally true, but the truth is if somebody is getting so much business, there is this amazing thing, Priscilla, called hiring someone. Business people know that. If you have someone who can’t hire because business is so big, they might not be the right member anyway. If you are growing, you don’t want to cut off your referral source, referral pipeline, because business is growing. More often than not, it’s not the real answer.

You can connect with your local BNI Director. We do have an exit interview sample in their manual, but the truth is they are just some real simple questions, and you are asking why they are leaving and what they liked about their participation. What were some of the challenges? By the way, the number one reason when people say they are leaving because business is really big and you really go deep and question them-

Number one: personality conflict. They almost always say, “Alright fine. You want to know the truth? I can’t get along with so and so.” Or “they give bad referrals and it is really making me aggravated.” That is a great opportunity to save a member. You can say, “Look, you are not the only person who has had that problem. I think some others have. Rather than you leave, let’s deal with the problem member because you are a good member.” I remember saving a member in BNI who gave me that reason of leaving because business was growing. The truth was that they were just mad at somebody else. When we discovered that, we got rid of the problem member and saved the good member. Being too busy is generally a symptom of another issue in a chapter.

We did two surveys, a series of interviews, in two regions over a several year period about people leaving and getting a sense of why they were leaving. Here is something that may surprise you. 20% on average of every chapter has turnover for reasons that are beyond the control of the chapter. No control whatsoever, meaning there is a health issue and they had to quit, they are moving- oftentimes, by the way, people who move end up joining another chapter someplace else, but they have to drop out of that chapter. They retired. They changed jobs.

Priscilla:
Childcare issues.

Ivan:
Sometimes it’s a childcare issue. That’s right. There may be a number of reasons that are completely beyond the control of the chapter. Nothing you can do about it. Which means if you have a chapter of 30 members, you can pretty well expect to lose 6 members a year on average for reasons that are completely out of your control.

To the original question, what is one of the biggest reasons? Really, one of the biggest reasons are a series of reasons that are beyond our control. It’s not uncommon to see a larger number of people turn over, but here is a percentage that really jumped out at me from something I read from the Corvette Association. The Corvette Association- now you are talking about zealots, right? These are people who went out and bought a Corvette and then they joined an association to celebrate that ownership. These are people who love their car. I read a newsletter where the National Director of the Corvette Association said you can expect- and he was writing to Presidents of local chapters- 40% turnover a year in your membership. 40% is common.

So if you are talking about zealots, people who are really excited about their car, and you are going to have 40% turnover, if you get in BNI another 10 or 20% of your members who leave for other reasons- they can’t get along with another member, they feel they are not getting enough business, whatever- and then you add that to the 20% that you know is going to leave for reasons beyond your control, you are are 30 -40% easily in turnover.

I bring this up because sometimes when you have a chapter who has 30% turnover in a year, you say to them, “That’s excellent!” They say that it can’t be excellent. It’s horrible. Well, 20% of is probably, according to studies we did, beyond your control. Now, if you want to know whether it is or not, do exit interviews and they will tell you where they sit. But a 30% turnover is outstanding because you are going to lose people for reasons that you can’t control. T

That is really what I wanted to talk about with this A.D.’s question. Now, how do you keep people in? I think it’s about creating an environment where people want to go to that meeting every week. So if you can create an environment where people want to be there, you are focused, you are structured- we talk about this in a podcast a few weeks ago. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. If you have a healthy culture, then you have groups where people want to be there. I meet members all the time that say to me- whatever day of the week they meet, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Tuesday- it’s their best day of the week. I ask why and it’s because they go to the BNI meetings and they love them.

It’s really funny to hear people say that they hate early mornings. Most of our groups still meet in the morning. “If you would have told me two years ago that I would be going to an o’dark-thirty meeting every week for two years, I would have said you are crazy, but it’s my best day of the week.”

I think that is really exciting, and it’s because if you focus on the culture of the group and keeping it healthy, you keep the turnover low. There are many reasons but one of the biggest that there is turnover is reasons beyond your control. You want to focus on reasons that are within your control.

Priscilla:
I guess we should expect some people to leave, so we don’t have to fret about it too much, knowing that other people will join.

Ivan:
There is always going to be turnover. Be prepared for that. The real question is whether there is turnover in a group that you can control. Sometimes there is turnover and somebody leaves who you want to go because they bring such a bad attitude to the group. The people that you want to keep in the group are the positive, supportive people who are bringing referrals in and who are leaving for some reason other than something outside your control. The best way to do that is create a healthy chapter with a great organizational culture and focus on accountability and referrals. And you will keep your turnover very low. That’s all I have for today, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Okay, great. That was excellent. Thank you so much. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

Deanna Tucci-Schmitt, Executive Director of BNI Western Pennsylvania, and Bob Gambone, author of Pecan Pie: 32 Business Success Strategies Passionately Baked to Order, join Dr. Misner this week to talk about BNI’s culture of recruiting.

Businesses have recruiters, whose job is actively finding the right person for the right position. BNI has had a tradition of inviting new members, without qualifying them in advance. If all BNI members develop the mindset of recruiters, everyone will get more and better referrals.

Remember, culture eats strategy for breakfast. Keep your chapter’s culture in mind when recruiting new members.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 220 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you and where are you?

Ivan:
I am actually in southern California this week at BNI HQ. We are doing our Directors Training this week. It’s very important. We spend three full days, 24 hours of training, going through about a 600 page manual on how to run effective regions of BNI. It’s a real important aspect of what I do, and I am involved in all of the training. That’s what I am doing today.

But I’m taking some time out to do an interview with a couple interesting people. I have on the line with us Deanna Tucci-Schmitt. Deanna is the director for BNI in western PA. She has been the Executive Director for 11 years. She is from my home town, Pittsburgh. I think I have mentioned that a couple of times in the podcast. It’s really interesting that Deanna learned about BNI when visiting Toledo, OH, which I think is really cool. She connected with her friend, Debbie Peters, who has been involved with BNI. From Debbie, found about about BNI and has really, really launched and grown western PA. Deanna is on really mostly to introduce who we have speaking today. Deanna, hi, it’s great to have you on. Tell us who we’re talking to.

Deanna:
I am delighted to be here. We love these podcasts. I wanted to bring on Bob Gambone who is a BNI member here in western PA and an Assistant Director. Bob’s corporate background gives him a lot of great perspective on how BNI works. He has some passion about recruiting and inviting.

Ivan:
That’s what Bob is going to be talking about today. Bob is actually a retired executive from Giant Eagle. I think that is really good because it shows that he has years and years of experience in business. He is a business coach. He wrote a book called, “Pecan Pie.” I gave an endorsement on the book. I really recommend it. When we are done with the podcast, I will give Bob’s URL and domain name so that people can go and check it out.

Bob, you wanted to talk about recruiting versus inviting. That is the topic of today’s podcast. I would love to hear what you have to say.

Bob:
Thank you. Thanks Deanna, thanks for the introduction and , Ivan, thank you for that, too. As we all know, BNI is a business. BNI continues to improve as a business by strapping in its culture. Recruiting is really a fundamental business culture. At BNI, we have a history of inviting. I really would like to see that evolve into a culture of recruiting. Now why is that?

In simple definition, recruiting is defined as to searching for new members, where inviting is defined as to requesting someones presence. Businesses do have formal positions called recruiters. They really don’t have people called inviters. So it is really a culture in business. Recruiting is really finding the right person for the right role. It’s really a qualifying process. BNI doesn’t have formal recruiters, so what we need to do is all BNI members need to be recruiters.

I would like to tell you a story about this and my success with this in identifying the difference. Al the painter ,who a few years back starting working for my wife and I and did a lot of painting in our house, was talking with me. I asked Al how was business. He said, “Bob, it’s not too good. I actually had to get a part time retail job ringing a register. Business is really down and I am running out of money for advertising. Advertising just isn’t working.”

So I listened to his story and found out that there was a need. I wanted to give him the same opportunity that I have had in BNI. We all say givers gain. I believe it really starts outside the meeting itself. I said to him, “Are you interested in building your business by referral?” He said, “Absolutely. I would love that.”

I said, “You need to come to a meeting with me.” It’s the basic ABCs of inviting that we talk about. Al came to a meeting and traditionally, as we all say, let the meeting sell itself. He was very impressed and he joined. I think he has been into it six or seven months now and his business has just skyrocketed. He is very successful now and no longer works his part time job. He has actually created a good relationship with his competition to the extent that they have called him a couple times to help them with their jobs. Now he is in the process of looking to hire employees.

So this is just one story. I have invited before. Really, I have invited people just to get them to the meeting. Some joined. Some haven’t. But the success I have had with sorting people first, kind of qualifying them and having that mindset of recruiting has really hit home. I think that really benefits and shows BNI members that we do invite but we just have that mindset of creating that culture. So that is kind of the background on it.

Ivan:
It’s really vital. You mentioned finding the right person with something else. I thought that was-

Bob:
Right person, right role.

Ivan:
Right person, right role. You want to find people who are a good fit in the organization. I think all too often, the only kind of test we give people is the mirror test. We stick it under their nose and it it fogs up we take them. I think you have to be really selective. Selective for the right reasons, not based on color, religion, sex, but based on a quality business professional. The real issue, and maybe you can take a stab at this, Bob- why is it so important to find the right person? What’s in it for the member?

Bob:
What’s in it for the member is they are going to be a quality member. They will understand a really get the whole culture of givers gain. If you get the right member, they are going to help grow the team and will be a quality member for the whole team. As we always say, when you do recruit, it’s about strengthening the team with new members. I find that really important.

Ivan:
Isn’t the bottom line about getting more referrals? You bring in more members, quality members and you are going to get more referrals and better referrals.

Bob:
Absolutely.

Ivan:
I think that’s the bottom line- because oftentimes, people will go, “ I don’t really have time to do this.” But we have to remember that bringing someone into your BNI group is actually a way of increasing your marketing. You are bringing in people who are going to bring you referrals.

Bob:
Yes, absolutely.

Ivan:
Good. What else, Bob?

Bob:
So how do we do this? How do we go from creating that culture of recruiting and transitioning from inviting, that mindset? We need to educate members on the definition and recruiting is to strengthen with new members. If we educate people that givers gain really starts outside the meeting. Give people the opportunity to come to BNI and experience your success. Givers gain really starts outside the meeting. All members should recruit and recruiting can happen everywhere. I love that saying, wherever you go, there you are. Recruit.

There are some great stories out there. I actually recruited somebody. I was in Panera. I gave the basic introduction. Where do you work? What do you do? I was interested in them first before anything became interesting. I just sis the ABCs of inviting and brought them to the meeting.

That’s some of those next steps that we need to live by. We can do them in educational moments, we can do them in assistant director presentations. I’ve done those. I have actually done a couple of those and it’s really been successful in some of the chapters that I oversee.

Ivan:
Bob, we are about done with the podcast today. We are almost out of time. What else would you like to share? Anything else?

Bob:
The next step, of course, is to create that culture of recruiting. I think as we create that culture, it is really strengthening our culture of givers gain. As you always say, Ivan, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So that is how I would like to end it.

Ivan:
I think that is a great way to end it. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. It’s so true. When you are part of an organization, and when I say organization, I am not just talking about the broader larger BNI, 6000 chapters in 50 countries. I am talking about the local chapter. That is a piece of the organization. That is an organization. So the culture of the chapter is critical. If you are part of a group that has a healthy culture, you could have a lousy strategy and still be successful. If you are part of a group that has a great strategy- you are really organized- but have a horrible culture, you are going to fail.

But if you are in a group that has a really great culture and you follow a strategy, and BNI certainly has the systems and the strategy. If you have a great culture and great strategy- and application of it- then nobody can beat you. You will be the best networking group in town because culture is so critical to the success of a group. And it is certainly critical in recruiting, wouldn’t you say, Bob? Nobody like to go to a meeting that is tense and unfriendly.

Bob:
Exactly. You said it. You create that culture, have that culture and it’s just a win-win.

Ivan:
Absolutely. Bob, thank you so much for being in on this call. Deanna, anything that you would like to throw in before we wrap up?

Deanna:
You have said it all well.

Ivan:
Deanna Tucci-Schmitt, Executive Director of BNI, Western PA. Bob Gambone. Bob is an Assistant Director in PA and also the author of the book, “Pecan Pie.” I did an endorsement of the book. I really recommend it. For more information on Bob, go to BobGambone.com. Did I get that right, Bob?

Bob:
Absolutely. Thanks Ivan.

Ivan:
Listen, my pleasure. Culture eats strategy for breakfast, everybody. When you listen to this podcast, write that down. I want you to go to your next BNI meeting and I want you to say, “ I heard on a BNI podcast that culture eats strategy for breakfast.” Then send people here to listen to this podcast. There is so much great content that is available week in and week out to members. Please share this with your members. Bob and Deanna, thank you so much for being on. Priscilla, back to you.

Priscilla:
Okay great. Thank you all very much.. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

The question of whether good attendance or giving referrals is more important to being a quality BNI member is what’s known as a false dilemma. Dr. Misner and his wife wrote an article about this on Success Net called “Addition by Subtraction.”

If you want a chapter to be strong, you have to cut back the members who aren’t committed to attending. When you reduce absenteeism, you increase the number of referrals, as the numbers in the Success Net article show. Your BNI chapter won’t be successful if people don’t show up.

If your chapter hasn’t been enforcing its attendance requirement—start. You’ll be amazed at the results.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 218 -

Priscilla:

Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you?

Ivan:

I am doing great, Priscilla. I have an interesting topic today. It’s based on a question that was asked by a member. Let me read the question and then we will talk about my response. The question was:

In your view, Ivan, what is the more important quality of a member, being on time and having good attendance at meetings or referring a healthy amount of revenue? I love this question. It is actually a logical fallacy. It’s called a false dilemma, where there are two points put up and a connection made between the two as though it were either this or that. I don’t believe it is either A or B. I believe you can have quality members and have good attendance. As a matter of fact, I think good attendance is really important to the quality of the member. But it’s not that it is only about A or B. I think it is about the two of them combined.

I want to refer people to an article that I wrote some time ago with my wife, Elizabeth. It’s at SuccessNet online at bnisuccessnet.com. Take a look at an article I wrote called, “Addition by Subtraction”. It’s a great piece and the end of it is actually a rewrite of material that I wrote in 1995 in the original printed versions of successnet. What we talk about in there is the best way to build a chapter is sometimes to cut a chapter back . If you actually reduce the size of the chapter in terms of certain nonperforming individuals, the chapter will grow.

The article is done with my wife and I and she is talking about it from a gardening perspective. I am talking about it from BNI’s perspective. She is talking about how in order for roses to grow, you have to cut the rosebush back. If you cut it back, you can reshape it and get many more roses out of it. But the only way for that to happen is to actually cut it back. I believe that is applicable with chapters as well. Sometimes if you want a chapter to be strong, you might have to cut it back as to people who are not attending.

There is a direct correlation between absences and the amount of referrals. I think one of the challenges that I have talked about in this podcast before is one of the strengths of a group like BNI is that most of the members are friends. But one of the weaknesses of a group like BNI is most of the members are friends.

Friends don’t like to hold friends accountable. When they are not showing up or doing things, it is hard to hold them accountable, especially if they have been bringing referrals. It’s hard to hold them accountable. The problem is that spreads and you end up getting a lot of people who aren’t then performing. Go to that article that I mentioned, Addition by Subtraction, and take a look at two studies that we did back in the 90′s. I originally wrote about his in 1994 and then again in 1995, where I put these two graphs in there. We worked with some chapters in reducing absenteeism.

I just want to give you some numbers here. We had one group that started off with 2.1 absences per member per quarter. Every single member on average missed twice during a 3 month period. There were only 14 members in the group and they passed 188 referrals. We really took a look at absenteeism and the chapter really focused on improving absenteeism. In the next three months, they dropped their absenteeism down from 2.1 to 1.0, a 52% drop in absenteeism. The number of members went up almost 30 % to 18. The number of referrals went up 43% to 269 referrals. They tracked an additional quarter and their absenteeism dropped to .6 absences per quarter. That ‘s a 71% drop in absenteeism. They increased their members to 21, a 50% growth and they increased their referrals 62% to 305. 71% drop in absenteeism and 62% increase in referrals.

I would argue that quality of members has a lot to do with attendance and both are key. It’s a logical fallacy to say it’s one or the other. Both in fact are important in order to have a successful chapter. Quality of members is actually showing up. Have you ever attended, Priscilla, over the phone? It’s one of those things that you have to be at the meetings for. That is what networking is like.

Go to that article and look at it. What is really cool is I had a chapter President come to me and say , “ I don’t believe this data” when I published it originally in 1994. I said, “ If you don’t believe this data, call up the chapter President and ask about it. He kept track of it.”

They said, “He is in your pocket. He’ll say whatever you want him to.” You don’t know Presidents very well then. He said, “We want to replicate it. We want to do an additional quarter. I believe it will be different if you go longer.” So I said that was fine. Do it.

I published the results. He was right. It was different. In the first group they had a 71% decrease in absenteeism and a 62% increase in referrals. It almost identical at the the third quarter for the second group. They had a 58% decrease in absenteeism and a 71% increase in referrals. Very close. But in that additional quarter, Priscilla, that one more quarter saw a 164% increase in referrals. They went from 122 referrals a quarter to 322 referrals a quarter. They went from 11 members to 21 members. Today, 11 members wouldn’t even be a chapter but back then, we didn’t know any better. A 90% increase in membership and 164% in referrals.

Quality of members is about attendance. Being there is key and if you doubt that, go look at the data. It is really clear. A lot of time people say there is an exception. They have this one person who is the exception. The problem with that is if you start making exceptions, everybody wants to be the exception. I remember the first time that I saw this one. I was running the very first chapter and I let somebody go because the attendance issue. They did bring good referrals but they just weren’t there enough. I was no more out the door with BNI. I had to step down from the chapter. As soon as I left, they brought her back in. I got a call about a year later from the group saying that person that you cut loose, we brought her back in. I asked how she was doing, and they had just kicked her out. I asked why. She didn’t change her pattern at all. She ended up actually creating problems with her absenteeism because other people started missing because she was missing.

It just brought down the whole group. Tell people if you have someone who is not there, it is just not a good fit. God bless them. We love them. They are wonderful people. It is just not a good fit. Quality is all about, in part, attendance as well as referrals. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Priscilla:
I think that if people are not at the meeting, they’re really not that committed. They are just not that into it. You know that book, “ He’s Just Not That Into You.” I think they are just not that into the concept of BNI.

Ivan:
Eventually, it catches up. If you have somebody who is bringing in referrals at the time, eventually it catches up. You want people- why accept mediocity when excellence is an option. You can get people to show up and bring referrals. That’s the thing. That’s all I’ve got for today, Priscilla. I would love to hear your comments. I know sometimes members go, “Oh my goodness! That’s so brutal! It’s all about generating business for you. The truth is if people don’t show up, you are not going to get business for yourself. Go to that article that I spoke about on bnisuccessnet.com and under the search function, just type in Addition by Subtraction. You’ll see the article that my wife and I wrote and the data. Explain to everybody it’s in the charts right there with all the information.

Priscilla:
Okay, great.

Ivan:
Thanks, Priscilla

Priscilla:
Well, that’s it for this week. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

If you’re part of the leadership team and a member isn’t participating in some way, approach them and say “How can we help you (give more referrals, bring in visitors, etc.)?” The person will respond with either a “can’t do” or a “won’t do” answer.

“Can’t do” answers come from people who want to participate, but don’t know how. The solution is to educate them.

“Won’t do” answers come from people who don’t want to participate. They want to receive referrals, but not to give them. Give these people the opportunity to step down.

If they want to stay because they’re getting referrals, then insist that they contribute.

How has your BNI chapter handled the “can’t do” and “won’t do” members? How well did it work? Do you have suggestions for other listeners?

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 217 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you today and where are you?

Ivan:
I am doing great, Priscilla. Thank you very much. It is a nice summer day here in southern California. I know it is not a summer day in the southern hemisphere, but here in California, it is a nice summer day in August. I have a great topic today, one that I train on a lot with BNI leadership teams and directors, but I really haven’t talked much about this on a podcast. It’s the concept of members being a can’t do or won’t do. Let me explain what I mean about that.

Oftentimes, a leadership team or director might come up to me and say, “We’ve got a member that is just not participating.” Either they are not bringing in referrals or they are not bringing in visitors. They are just not actively engaged. One of the first things that I tell leadership teams is to sit down with the member and ask this question. It’s my magic words for customer service: how can we help you?

It’s really important that you do that because if you go up to a member and just start hammering them for not being engaged, they just get defensive. But instead, if you ask how you can help them do this, it’s a very powerful technique. It’s gold. It really is a very powerful technique because if you ask how you can help them, they will virtually always give you one of two answers. They will either give you one of two answers to that question. They will either give you a can’t do answer or a won’t do answer.

Let’s say it’s referrals. I’ll give you a real life example. We had a printer in a chapter.  We asked how we could help him bring in referrals. He was dead last. He brought in the least number of referrals in the group. We asked how we could help him and his answer was, “You know, I am really struggling with this. I am having a hard time bringing in referrals because I don’t really have much of a conversation with my clients because they don’t tell me what they need. They slap something down on my desk and say, ‘I need 1000 copies a week from tomorrow. Any questions? Great.’  They’re out the door. I don’t know if they need a CPA. I don’t know if they need a florist. I don’t know what is going on in their lives. I don’t have that kind of dialogue with them. I am struggling. I want to bring in referrals. I just don’t know how to do it.”

 That is a classic can’t do answer. They want to help. They just don’t know how to help. You know what, Priscilla? It is our responsibility to help those people. We have all been can’t dos. I was a can’t do. I didn’t know how to network.

 By the way, we came up with a great solution for this guy. We put up a board with everybody’s business card. People would come up and they would pull a business card from one of the BNI members. They would say, “Tom, what do you know about this person? Are they really good?”  He would say, “Oh yeah. I see them every week. They’re very good.” This guy went from being the worst referral generator in the group to being number one so many months in a row that they just made him the honorary winner for the year and started recognizing the second  place person.

It’s a longer story than that, but it’s a classic example of somebody being a can’t do and you teach them how to do it. It’s the won’t do people that are a real problem. When you say to somebody who  is a won’t do, “How can we help you bring in more referrals?” they’ll say something like, “It’s really difficult for me in my profession to be able to give referrals to the people in the group.” You are thinking, of course, so why are you here? Priscilla, why do you think they are there?

Priscilla:
They are there to receive referrals. That is why they are there.

Ivan:
You’ve got it. They are there to get referrals. They are just not willing to give referrals because of whatever reason. They are a won’t do. They are not going to do it. Those are the people that are a little more difficult. You can immediately alleviate the majority of the people who are not performing, and I think this applies in general business, not just BNI group. You can eliminate a majority of problems by identifying whether somebody is can’t do or won’t do. If they are a can’t do, we have to retrain and redirect. If they are a won’t do, you basically need to say- and if you open up the door to people, it is amazing how many people will quit if you simply say, “It’s okay if you step down if this isn’t for you at this time. It is okay if you step down and come back in at another time.” You’d be surprised at how many people say, “I probably should step down and quit.”

If they don’t take the bait, and want to stay because they are getting referrals, that is when you sit down with them and say in order for them to continue in the program, they have to contribute back to the chapter, whether it is bringing in visitors, referrals,  or supporting the group in some way. You have to contribute back to the chapter. But that is a much smaller number. If you can recognize whether somebody is a can’t do or a won’t do,  it is much easier for you to solve the problem.

Have you seen situations like this at all, Priscilla? What do you think of this?

Priscilla:
Absolutely. It is just about people’s attitude towards being a networker, I think. If you are a little bit embarrassed about promoting your fellow members to your friends or community, then you are  going to hold back and be a won’t do. But if there is this attitude that it is very cool to know lots of great resources and talented people, then you are going to jump at turning people on to your members.

Ivan:
Yeah. That’s all I have for today, Priscilla. I have a question for the listeners. Have you ever seen a can’t do or a won’t do in your BNI group? How would you handle them differently? How did you handle them, maybe, and how would you handle them differently in the future based on understanding this can’t do/won’t do concept. We would love for you to leave comments. I’m telling you, it’s one  of the most powerful concepts that I train on to help people: A.) stay positive and solutions focused, B.) support people who really want to be there. And C.) to move on people  who  are just there to get and not to give.

Priscilla:
That sounds good.

Ivan:
Thanks Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Great., Ivan. Thank you so much. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

BNI is not a Multi-Level Marketing organization, but many people in MLMs are BNI members. Members of reputable MLMs are definitely welcome in BNI, as long as they market only the company’s products or services.

One such member recently asked “Why is it that BNI doesn’t allow people in MLM professions the opportunity to share both our products and the business opportunity?”

This guideline was created by BNI members for good reasons. As all BNI members know, there’s only one available membership spot for any given professional classification. If the MLM representative pitches the business opportunity, other members get upset because this eliminates a possible member slot.

On the other hand, if a BNI member wants to mention these opportunities in a one-to-one meeting, that’s a matter for the member’s own judgment. But all BNI members should bear in mind that networking is about farming, not hunting. Don’t push too hard.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 215 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you today and where are you?

Ivan:
I am doing great, Priscilla. I am in Tucson for a meeting of the Transformational Leadership Council, a Jack Canfield organization that I belong to. So I am here for conferences this weekend.

Priscilla:
That sounds interesting. I know you will bring back some good information from that.

Ivan:
I always get great ideas when I am here.

Priscilla:
Okay. So what are you going to share with us?

Ivan:
I am going to talk about multi level marketing companies, which I have talked about a little bit in some podcasts but not at length. What gets me to do that is I was asked by a major magazine, Multi Level Marketing Magazine, to talk about the relationship between MLMs and BNI. I thought that might give me a good opportunity to do a podcast on that. Multi level marketing organizations are sometimes called network marketing organizations, which is really confusing because sometimes people think- they refer to BNI as networking marketing.

We are not a multi level marketing organization but we are about marketing and we are definitely about networking. So there is definitely a difference there. I am talking about multi level marketing organizations participating in BNI. For decades, MLMs have been in the organization. As the founder of BNI, I am often asked about the relationship between the organization and MLMs.

I was recently asked by a BNI member whose business is based on a MLM model, “ Why is it that BNI doesn’t allow people in MLM professions the opportunity to share both our products and the business plan, the business opportunity?”

I know that this is going to be a controversial podcast, but it is really important that I explain why this guideline exists. First of all, it was created by members through our Board of Advisors. There were some really good reasons for it, and I want to talk about it.

First, let me say that reputatble MLM companies are more than welcome in BNI. We have had one or more MLM members in many of our 6000 or so groups around the world. As a matter of fact, MLM companies are active in our organization going back to the very first chapter, which started in 1985. I personally approved a MLM representative to become a member of that chapter. He and his wife were members of the organization for almost two decades, good members for a long time.

So to answer to the question that is often asked about promoting both the products and the business opportunities, it’s important, I think, to first have an understanding of the cultural context that permeates the entire BNI organization. Most BNI members understand that. That is we believe that networking is more about farming than it is about hunting. It’s about cultivating those long term relationships with people and -this is really important- each BNI chapter is made up of a variety of professions and there is only one professional classification in any individual chapter. Nobody else in the same business or profession is allowed to represent that. That is kind of an important aspect of the MLM issue.

Understanding this cultural context makes it easier to understand the answer to why BNI doesn’t allow members to share the business opportunity aspect of their MLM business. It’s true that one of our guidelines states that members need to represent their products and services in BNI and not the business opportunity element of the business. That is true and it’s a guideline created by members. There are a couple of reasons for this.

First, BNI is all about promoting the products and services that people represent. That is our mission. That is the BNI mission. To promote the products or services that you represent. However, each BNI group is permitted to have one person of each profession or classification. Though it is not a problem if multiple members represent a MLM business, which sells one or more non competing products or services, it can become a problem if one or more of those members begin to talk about the business opportunity part of their business. It creates a problem because it creates competition amongst all the MLM people in a group.

Over the years, we’ve learned this the hard way. When one BNI member pitches a business opportunity during a meeting, every other person who might be in a MLM starts doing the same thing. They want to sell their business opportunity. What we try to do is get them to focus on the product. What happens when one person is pitching is the other members witnesses this opportunity pitch and they get really upset because they feel the opportunity no longer exists for them to attract any other chapter members. I have literally seen verbal knock down drag outs. I am not kidding. Verbal knock down drag outs because one person is stepping on another person’s toes. We’ve probably all seen this to some extent in the organization.

Because of this, our Board of Advisors, made up exclusively of BNI members decided that members representing a MLM company must solely represent their product or service when attending or participating in BNI meetings. Subsequently, these members have to refrain from sharing the business opportunity aspects of their business during that time. This is a decision that was made by the management of the organization, not me. I agree with the decision, don’t get me wrong. But this is something that came from the members and I think it is important for us to understand.

Having said that, I think it’s important to understand that what a member does in a one to one meeting with an individual about their products or services is up to that member. Being professional and non pushy, there is nothing wrong with, in a one to one meeting, talking about various aspects of the products, services and the business opportunity. Here is where it might get a little controversial. Some people might get upset that I am saying this, but the bottom line is I can’t control what two people talk about in a meeting privately. I can’t. Don’t even try.

So if you are going to have a conversation about the products and you want to talk about the business opportunity in the one to one, that is up to you. But in a BNI meeting, we can control that. So it’s very important that in the context of the BNI meeting you represent the product because if we get to know your product and feel good about your product, then it goes back to the original comment about networking being more about farming and building those relationships and that trust. If we trust you and we trust the product, then tell me about the business opportunity one to one.

So strong contact networking groups like BNI are all about going deep in our professional relationships. First and foremost, members should be viewed as referral partners, not just clients. If a member views their BNI chapter as a room full of clients, then their reach is limited to the members in the room. Conversely, if they view their BNI group of valued referral partners, then they can consider their chapter in terms of hundreds, if not thousands, of additional people through their referral partners, and there is a much larger potential referral source of business by viewing your members as referral partners and not just potential clients.

Hunting versus farming is the perfect way to describe BNI’s approach to the MLM issue and the guideline that we have in the organization. I hope this podcast clarifies this topic for people. Remember, it was members who came up with this guideline, not management. What do you think, Priscilla?

Priscilla:
I think that’s good. I think that helps explain it. It’s interesting that you say you can’t control what people say to each other and it’s not off limits. You can actually have a one on one and explain how the process works. If somebody wants to join, they can. But they can’t talk about it in a meeting. It makes sense to me.

Ivan:
It is one of our program guidelines. It says, “Multi level marketing members of BNI should represent their products and services in BNI, not the business opportunity element of their business. “ Again, what you do one to when you are presenting your products and services is between you and the prospective client. With that said, I would advise you to go slowly because these are people that you want to build the relationship with and you don’t want to go there too quickly.

Show them what your products do. Be proud of what you have to offer. What is really interesting is I find that a lot of MLM members who take that approach get people who love their products so much that they get people who ask them, “How do I become a representative of this?” When that happens, you know you have a BNI member who is doing it right.

Priscilla:
We had a member in our chapter who hit up every single person and then he dropped out. I thought that was hysterical.

Ivan:
I think that is what many people are afraid of when that kind of thing happens to some extent. That’s all I have today, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Great. Thanks, Ivan. I appreciate it. I think that’s it for this week. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

Hazel Walker, co-author of Business Networking and Sex—Not What You Think, joins Dr. Misner today to talk about the GAINS profile, first mentioned in Business by Referral. (That stands for Goals, Accomplishments, Interests, Networks, and Skills.)

How does the GAINS profile help BNI members?

• Goals are how we help one another. It’s much easier to refer another person when you know what s/he is trying to achieve.
• Knowing someone else’s Accomplishments lets you build their credibility.
• Interests help us find common ground and build rapport.
• Discovering each other’s Networks lets us connect one another.
• Skills provide more credibility and open doors to doing business.

The idea in a GAINS exchange is to have a conversation. Hazel likes to start with the I, because it’s easiest to build rapport that way. For instance, two men who resisted doing the GAINS exchange discovered they were both soccer coaches and became the best of friends.

Hazel also recommends doing the GAINS profile with members of your chapter more than once. The answers to these questions change over time.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 208 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello, Ivan. How are you and who do you have with us today?

Ivan:
Hi Priscilla. I am doing great. I have a good friend, a friend of mine, a friend of BNI. Hazel Walker. Hazel has been a member, joined BNI- she’s now an Executive Director. She joined BNI as a member in 1991. We were talking about this, Hazel. You were only like 19 then, right?

Hazel:
I had just turned 19.

Ivan:
So Hazel has been involved in the organization for 20 years. That’s what I love about BNI. We get so many people who have been members, then directors, for years and sometimes decades. It’s really exciting to see somebody like Hazel who started as a member and then became a Director in Indiana, the Indianapolis area, where she’s from. She is also my co-author, one of my two co-authors in a book I am not sure I’ve talked about yet on my podcast, but we’re definitely going to be talking about it. The book, Priscilla, I know I have talked to you about it. The book is called Business Networking and Sex- Not What You Think. It’s about the difference between men and women in how they network, which I know will be disappointing to some people based on the title.

We think it’s going to be a great book. If the listeners here have a chance, go visit our website. It is, funny enough, called businessnetworkingandsex.com. There are some really funny videos that are going to be going up here real soon. There is some good stuff already about the book. Take a look at that. Hazel is the female voice in the book, and Frank De Raffele is the male voice. I am the data guy, the expert that we do with about 12,000 people.

Hazel, it’s great having you on the podcast. We are going to talk about behind the GAINS profile, right?

Hazel:
Exactly.

Ivan:
The GAINS profile is originally from the book that I wrote called Business by Referral. It’s called the GAINS exchange. It stands for Goals, Accomplishments, Interests, Networks and Skills. It’s an acronym, and it’s a profile that 4 can be very effective in your networking activities. My first question to you is how can you help members by using the GAINS profile? How can members be helped by actually using this very simple profile?

Hazel:
One way that they can do this is if they understand what is behind each one of those acronyms. G is goals and goals is how we help one another. If you understand my goals and I understand yours, that is how we help each other. A is accomplishments. If I know what you have accomplished and what you are proud of, it allows me to build your credibility when I am out meeting other people whom I want to refer to you. I can talk to them about your accomplishements and build your credibility when you are not there. I- interest- if you start with this one, interest, that is how we can build rapport with one another. Ease of conversation, we can find common ground and build rapport. It will allow us to start to share all of the other information by building that connection. N is network. What are the places that you network and I network? If I realize that you’re networking at some places that I would love to be connected to, it allows us at that point to connect one another. Networks allow us to connect one another. Skills is S. That is just one more way that I can connect you to other people. Sometimes even through a back door. Someone needs something, you have that skill, and I can make that connection and in the process, you are able to build credibility with that person and possibly do business down the road.

So understanding what each one of those mean and why it is important that we learn those about our members allows us to support and help our members more completely.

Ivan:
Isn’t it really about finding the overlap between them, areas of overlapping interest or activity or whatever so that you can make that personal connection because, really, although we’re a business organization, it’s really about that personal connection, isn’t it?

Hazel:
It absolutely is. If you and I have a common goal and we both want to finish a marathon, that gives us something more to talk about. Now we have a goal and an interest. Absolutely.

Ivan:
Overall, what do you think the value is in having members sit down and do a GAINS exchange, where they exchange with each other this information?

Hazel:
I think the biggest value is that it allows us to have a way of building a deeper relationship in a constructive manner. All too often, members will go to a one-on-one-

Ivan:
A one-to-one. Remember we got in trouble in Europe on that one.

Hazel:
Oh yeah. That’s right. I always write it one-to-one. They go to a one-to-one.

Ivan:
Priscilla, just so you know, there are countries where one-on-one has a completely different connotation. We got into some problems with that.

Priscilla:
I see. Okay. I understand now.

Hazel:
They end up being social. They talk about weather. They talk about sports. While that can help build the relationship, it doesn’t move forward in a constructive manner to help each other’s business. In BNI, they are looking for ways to be able to pass referrals and make connections to one another. GAINS profile allows you to do that.

Ivan:
It absolutely does. How do you use a GAINS exchange to deepen a relationship with other members of your group?

Hazel:
It’s the overlap that deepens the relationship. It’s those times when you find those common goals, common interests, common networks, common people that you know. That’s when you start to really go deeper into the relationship. Understanding that GAINS are how we are going to help one another, finding those common interests really allows us to dig deeper into the relationship, especially when you start talking about interests.

I had a guy one time tell me that the GAINS profile did not work. He said it doesn’t work. I said, “You’re right, but don’t tell anyone.” Then I did a GAINS profile with him, but I started with the I so he wasn’t aware. By the time we finished, I knew everything. I knew that he wanted to work less time and that he wanted to buy a bass boat. He was a member of a bass club. I knew what kind of boat, where he- I knew a lot about him, and by learning that simple thing of what he was passionate about, I was able to really deepen our relationship. He was able to see how it really works.

Ivan:
Did you point out to him that you did a GAINS profile with him?

Hazel:
I read it right back to him. I said, “Okay, so your goals are this. Your accomplishments are this.” I read right back everything he told me without his realizing that he told me because I went into the whole GAINS profile in a relational manner, not a technical manner.

Ivan:
That’s a really good point. I’m a guy and we’re writing this gender book together. I am a guy. I wrote it. One of the things that we’re seeing is there is this transactional process that men tend to take versus a relational process. I kind of wrote it in a transactional way, but it’s not meant to be applied in a transactional way. It works best in a relational way. If do this: “Okay, give me your goals. Here are my goals,” it becomes very superficial. That doesn’t work.

The idea is really to have a conversation. This is really just a mechanism to help carry on the conversation. Is that decent way to put it?

Hazel:
Correct. That is why I always encourage people to start with the I. You don’t have to go in order. Start with the I and let me build some rapport. I can get the rest of it as we continue to talk.

Ivan:
That’s actually a great suggestion. Start with the I.

Hazel:
Always start with the I.

Ivan:
When we tested this, and I may have said this in a podcast in the past, I had a similar situation with two guys who didn’t want to do it. They were dragged kicking and screaming into the process. They just did not want to do it. They ended up finding out they were both soccer coaches and ended up becoming best of friends over soccer coaching. They ended up doing business with each other, yet they had been in the chapter for almost a year and had not done business together. When they found out they were soccer coaches, they became best of friends, developed a relationship and started doing business together. It’s really how just going deep can do that.

Hazel:
The I builds that rapport. The I creates the common ground.

Ivan:
There you do, so I think the big take away from this podcast, everyone, is when you do that GAINS profile, don’t necessarily start with the G. This is why I love doing this podcast with experts like Hazel who have been out there doing this as well. You gave me a great suggestion here today. Don’t start with the G. Start with the I. It’s easier to start that connection. Anything else you want to share, Hazel, before we wrap up?

Hazel:
Don’t be limited to doing the GAINS profile one time. That’s the other thing I see is people want to go do it once. “I did a GAINS with everybody in the chapter 30 years ago. I don’t know why I need to do it again.” You have to do it over and over again. You have to sit down and have these conversations repeatedly because life changes, interests change, goals change, networks change. It all changes.

Ivan:
It does. Maybe going back, if you have the old GAINS profile, maybe compare and contrast. Have you ever tried that? I haven’t. That’s why I am asking.

Hazel:
No, I have not done that . That’s a good idea, and I may take that one away.

Ivan:
It may be interesting to say, “So last time we sat down together, these are some of the things you said. What’s changed? What’s new in your life? What’s going on? What are some of the new accomplishments?”

Hazel:
Yeah, what’s important now?

Ivan:
To see what’s changed because that could be an interesting conversation. Even a conversation as to why it has changed could be an interesting conversation.

Hazel:
Exactly. It also opens the door to possible referrals.

Ivan:
Absolutely. All of this is about referrals. Everyone has to understand this. It’s all about referrals, really. Our goal here is to build a relationship with people that you know and trust. When you know and trust them, you are going to refer them. So the deeper you go in the relationship, the more likely you are to refer them. If your network is a mile wide an an inch deep, it is not going to be powerful. You have to go deep into some of the relationships in order to have the comfort to generate some of the referrals. We are at the end of our time. Hazel Walker, thank you so much. You are a great Director for BNI. I appreciate everything you do. It has truly been a joy. Sometimes I have been a little afraid on this book project with you and Frank talking about gender issues. But let me tell you, you are a consummate professional. You have done a wonderful job. It has been a real pleasure working on that book with you. I invite everybody to go to businessnetworkingandsex.com. Take a look at Hazel’s bio. Take a look at what we are doing there.

Look for the GAINS profile. Go to your chapter President and ask for the GAINS profile. Do what we are talking about here today. I think you will find it to be very beneficial for your membership.

Hazel, thank you so much.

Hazel:
You’re very welcome.

Ivan:
Priscilla, back to you.

Priscilla:
Okay. Great. Thanks both of you. It was very interesting. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

It would probably surprise you to know about some of the influential people that some of your fellow BNI members know. Don’t assume that just because someone works in an unrelated industry, that person isn’t a referral source for you. It doesn’t take a corporate executive to connect you with a corporate executive. Members of your chapter have connections through their family, friends, and hobbies, as well as their clients and colleagues.

Never overlook the networking possibilities of an event or a possible BNI member, no matter what kind of event it is or how unlikely it seems. The dentist, the cosmetic salesperson, the gardener, may be the biggest source of referrals in your chapter.

If you have a story about someone walking away from business—or unexpectedly getting business—because they didn’t realize who another person knew, post it to the comments here.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 206 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello, Ivan. How are you?

Ivan:
Doing great, Priscilla. I’ve got an interesting topic today. You never know whom they know. We don’t walk around wearing signs displaying everyone that we know. It would probably surprise people to know about some of the influential people that your fellow BNI members know but haven’t told you about. You can assume that your BNI members, family, friends, acquaintances, referral partners do have powerful contacts that can help you and help you in a number of ways, but they may not have shared that for a number of reasons. It could be they don’t know you real well yet, and these are their best customers or clients. Or could be that you haven’t asked, which I think is really important.

It always surprises me when I do that exercise in a chapter, we get really specific and we name somone that we have been trying to get to. It always surprises me how somebody says, “Oh, I know that person,” or, “That person is my relative.” That was one of my favorites. “That is my sister-in-law.” I was like, “Really? You never told me.” “You never asked.”

You never know who people know, and you never want to underestimate the depth of the contact pools that your fellow members are swimming in. There is a great story that I heard about a project management consultant who did business with large manufacturers and was asking for referrals. He was talking with a woman who owned a small gift basket business and she expressed interested in helping the consultant. Haughtily, he said he didn’t see any possible way she could help him, this gift basket person. She said, “I don’t know. Tell me what you do.” He said, “I go to manufacturers and help them with their processes. I am sure that you have never heard of any of the people who I need to meet.” He turned and walked away. He was just like, you know- we’ve seen people like this.

Priscilla:
This is a real story?

Ivan:
This is a real story, yeah. He just basically said, “There’s nothing you can do. Thanks but no thanks.” He left, and the gift basket woman, who was a BNI member, smiled and said nothing. She basically had a secret that she didn’t share. That was that among her clients were several large manufacturing companies. She knew them personally, including many executives at higher levels in the companies because they had used her business. More importantly, her father-in-law owned the largest manufacturing company in town. She was a great referral source for this consultant, but he was basically rude to her, turned his back on her and walked away without realizing how much money he just left on the table.

That is the kind of thing that we have to be cognizant of. You just don’t know who these people know. The value that you bring to a referral network or to a strategic alliance is directly related to the number of relationships that you have and the quality of those relationships. In a typical referral networking group like BNI where you have 20-40 people, the number of referrals that can be created among all the possible contacts within one or two degrees of separation is almost incalculable. It doesn’t take a corporate executive to connect you with another corporate executive, or a rich person to introduce you to another rich, influential person. That’s not the way the world always works. Quite honestly, I’m not sure that it ever has worked that way.

I had a BNI Director who told me about a high end property developer who was invited to a networking group- it wasn’t a BNI group. He was invited to a networking group’s gold tournament as a guest to see what referral networking was all about. He came but only because he loved golf. As a big money developer, he didn’t need to network. He came to the awards dinner afterwards only because his foursome won. At the dinner, he happened to be seated next to a financial advisor who had grown wealthy through the referral networking process. This was a BNI member. He had become a property investor. Through conversation, the guest mentioned to this financial advisor that he was having trouble getting a bank loan on a property deal. The financial advisor said he might be interested in investing. Over the next few days, the two were negotiating a six figure deal.

The moral of the story is you always pursue the networking opportunity of an event. You never know who you are going to sit next to. I have had that exact situation happen to me personally at a networking group many, many years ago. You just don’t know who you are sitting next to, and you just can’t determine whether they are going to have a great contact or be a great contact just by the professions that they are in.

I could spend time giving you more and more stories, all similar, about a gardner, a cosmetics consultant. I think I shared a story on a podcast some time ago about a dentist who gave one of the biggest referrals in the history of BNI. We have some groups that say, we want business to business. We don’t want a chiropractor, a dentist or a cosmetics person. And yet, a couple of the biggest referrals I have seen given were by a cosmetics person and a dentist. You just don’t know who these people know. The key to building a powerful personal network is to surround yourself with quality business people in diverse professions.

I’ve been doing this 26 years. I still get people who don’t get that. They still go, “Yeah, but I need to meet the CEO of whatever organization.” Well, the CEO doesn’t want to meet you. They are hiding from you. They are. Listen. They say they want to get in this organizations, but the CEOs aren’t in the organizations that you can get into. There are organizations for CEOs. There are several that come to mind. I don’t want to name them on the podcast, but they cost more than $1000 a month to participate in and you have to prove that you are the CEO of a multi-million dollar company. Otherwise they don’t let you in. Period. So they are hiding from you.

Forget about that. That’s not the best way to build your business. Surround yourself with quality people in a lot of different professions because you never know who those people know. When people get that and understand that networking is more about farming than hunting and it’s about cultivating those relationships with people in diverse professions, those are the people who do well in BNI.

Priscilla:
And it has to do with your attitude towards people in general. That’s very attractive and can bring you all kinds of referrals just by showing the kind of person you are.

Ivan:
Yeah. And being professional with people even when you don’t think they have something to give you. What happens is some people look at others and go, “This person can’t do anything for me. I’m out of here.” You know, to be honest with you, those aren’t the people who I want to network with anyway. They just don’t get it as evidenced by a couple of stories that I have shared here today on today’s podcast.

Here is what I would like from today’s listeners. If you have a story, something that happened to you or someone you know, maybe another BNI member, about not knowing who somebody knows, share that here on the podcast. Tell me a brief story that has happened to you or someone you know where somebody walked away from business because they didn’t realize this person had that contact or they someone stumbled upon it, that this person had that contact. Anything relating to the subject. I would love to hear more stories. Please put them up here on BNIpodcast.com.

Priscilla:
Okay. Perfect. Thank you, Dr. Misner.

Ivan:
Thank you, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
I think that’s it for this week. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

Certified Financial Planner Dan Romero joins Dr. Misner today. Dan is part of the BNI Diamond Club in Santa Ana and has been a BNI member since 2002.

This episode is called “You do the math” because Dan estimates that he could cover 650 years of BNI dues in what he gets out of one year’s membership in BNI. His business has so far gathered $25,963,639 in assets from referrals or referrals that come from referrals.

So why are Dan and his chapter so successful?

1. Givers gain. Taking time to get to know the other members, make introductions, and give referrals. This generates trust and puts you top of mind.
2. Sponsoring people into the group. This guarantees a quality group and grows the chapter faster. Larger chapters generate more business.
3. Serving on the leadership team. This creates visibility and also demonstrates reliability and trustworthiness, encouraging people to give you referrals.

Disclaimer

Daniel Romero (California Insurance Lic #: 0C54180) is a Registered Representative with and Securities & fee based asset management are offered through LPL Financial a Registered Investment Advisor and Member FINRA /SIPC. For a list of states in which I am registered to do business, please visit RomeroWM.com. No information provided on this site is intended to constitute an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to buy shares of any security, nor shall any security be offered or sold to any person, in any jurisdiction in which such offer, solicitation, purchase or sale would be unlawful under securities laws of such jurisdiction.

Third-party posts found on this site do not reflect the views of LPL Financial or Romero & Levin Wealth Management, Inc. and have not been reviewed by the LPL Financial as to accuracy or completeness.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 198 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, CA. I am joined today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan. How are you doing today? And I hear you have a guest for us.

Ivan:
I do. I am doing great, Priscilla. Thank you very much. I do have a guest on the podcast today. I don’t have a lot of guests that I bring in, but when I talk to somebody that I think has a story that will be interesting or compelling to members, I love to bring them on board.

I have with us Dan Romero. Dan is a certified financial planner. He is the president of his own independent firm, Romero and Levine Wealth Management. He has been in business since 1998, and he has been a member of BNI, currently in the Diamond Club chapter that meets in Santa Ana, since 2002.

So, Dan, I have two things to say. One, thank you for being on my podcast.

Dan:
No problem.

Ivan:
Two, the name of the podcast today is “You Do the Math.” I love that title. Tell everybody why we came up with that title.

Dan:
That’s a good question there. It all sums up- I was introduced to BNI in 2002. I attended UCLA. I reached out to a fraternity brother who I knew was in law. I was looking to meet an estate planning attorney. Anyway, he introduced me to somebody down here, and that person introduced me to BNI. Long story short, I joined. I ended up starting the group that I am in now, the Diamond Club.

The story behind that is interesting. We used to meet at Angels Stadium at the Diamond Club behind home plate. How I got that going was I attended one of the leadership meetings with one of the members. I don’t remember the gentleman’s name, but he had just gotten back from Boston and he mentioned that he visited a chapter that meets at Fenway Park. He said, “Hey it might be a good idea if someone gets it going in Anaheim Stadium.”

Ivan:
I’ve been to that location. It’s an amazing location at Fenway. Yeah.

Dan:
I can imagine. I actually reached out to a representative of the Red Sox. It turned out we went to the same high school separated by about ten years. He gave me all the insights of who I should contact at the stadium. Long story short is we got it set up and we met there for about a year and a half. The guy who got us in ended up leaving, and they were going through change. So we ended up bouncing around, and now we are pretty established. Now we meet at Santa Ana Elks Lodge.

How we got the title of “You Do the Math”, don’t quote me on this but-

Ivan:
You know, this is being recorded.

Dan:
A real rough estimate, give or take- I would conservatively say that for my annual BNI dues, I could probably cover 650-700 years of annual dues just from what I generate in current income right now.

Ivan:
That is just amazing. Now, dues do vary a little bit around the world. For what it cost you for membership dues, so far since you have been a member of this organization, that will pay for the next 650-700 years of participation in BNI. Is that what you are saying?

Dan:
Yeah. Now I just have to figure out how to make that work.

Ivan:
I hope you are a member that long. That would be amazing.

Dan:
Yeah. Exactly. We keep active statistics here at my office of what we have gathered. To date, to the penny, we have managed $25,963,639 from referrals, introductions in BNI, or referrals from those referrals.

Ivan:
Referrals from referrals. That is an important point that I want to stop on for just a second. A lot of times we count the referrals that we give but we don’t count the referrals that come from the referrals that we get in BNI. I am pleased that you are tracking that because that is absolutely part of what comes from your participation in BNI.

Dan:
Absolutely. How I look at it is, had I never joined BNI, would I have ever gotten that introduction? So if I get a referral from clients and that client refers me- not only that but we have had visitors that visit our chapter. Maybe they didn’t join, but they ended up doing business with me. If would never have joined BNI, I never would have gotten that busienss. So big proponent.

Ivan:
When we spoke originally, there were a few reasons that you gave me why you felt you were successful. So let me throw those out and let you comment on them. The first was following BNI’s philosophy of givers gain. You thought that was important. Do you want to talk about that for a second?

Dan:
Yeah. When I had first gotten in the group, I was in a position of high traffic. Someone is not just going to toss me half a million bucks to invest that when they’ve met me one day. It’s not like buying flowers. People really need to trust you.

It took me about a year to really get my first target market referral because people had to gain that trust. But what I was doing was instead of concerning myself with the number of referrals and business I was getting, I considered myself successful from the beginning and today with regards to what I am giving back. I really took the time to get to know what the other members did and do what I can to generate introductions. I need to make sure that the people I am giving these introductions to are good at what they do. That is obviously important to me as well. I just can’t refer out if someone is not good.

But once people made that criteria- which is a little easier for me because I was in the advantageous position of starting my own group, so I kind of cherry-picked a lot of the professionals, especially those that are close to me that I know are good. So my philosophy was get introductions, give referrals. I have been involved in the leadership team. I have been president of my club.

Ivan:
Let’s go back to that. One of the other things that you mentioned to me is that you gave a lot of referrals. You were one of the top referral givers in the group. I talk about that a lot. In a podcast we had, a guest on this podcast some time ago, Alan Buchanan, had given a lot of referrals and had one of his best years ever.

Let’s talk about that for a second. Why do you think giving referrals gets business for you?

Dan:
Anytime we get a new member in, I let somebody know. Let’s say you joined the group. Somebody comes up to you and two months later, they have given you five referrals. You have closed those. The only thing I am going to be thinking of is I have to find a way to get this person an introduction. You are on the top of their mind if you are helping feed their family. That’s what you are doing.

Going back to me, that is just the philosophy that works. I look for many different ways that work to create those opportunities, and it works. Again, I consider success when I give somebody a referral as opposed to me going and meeting and getting one. I am looking to create introductions. And then at the end of the day, whether they all it karma, givers gain, or whatever, it comes back full circle as far as I am concerned.

Ivan:
One of the other things that you have mentioned is that you have sponsored at least 20 other people into your group. How has that helped you to sponsor people? What is the benefit? What’s in it for me if I am another member?

Dan:
By sponsoring people, you know if they are good or not. I’m not just bringing anybody in. If I sponsor somebody in, I have a personal experience. That is good, and that is that much less time that I have to spend getting to know that member, if they are good or not. But beyond that, in terms of sponsoring, that grows a chapter. I’ve seen the stats again and again and again through you, Bill Mills, Jenny Mehring, people involved at the local level of our So Cal BNI, that the larger your chapter is, the more business. When we started off, we had about 26 members, we fell all the way down to 11, came all the way back up to 30+. It’s significantly more business.

Ivan:
The more people you have, the more referrals that are going to be generated. That’s a statistic that has held up since the beginning. Gernerally, chapters of about 15 members will pass about 50 referrals a month. Chapters of 30 members will pass 150 referrals a month. That is very common. So the size of the group is key, but the thing is don’t just bring in warm bodies. You brought in many people that you knew. Knowing somebody is, I think, important.

We are almost out of time, but there is one more thing that I want to talk about. That is that you have served in some form of leadership for many years in your group, including chapter president, which in some countries is called chapter director. Why is that important for a member- to be on the leadership team?

Dan:
Increased visibility for one. If I am in front of people it gives me an opportunity for people to see me. You may not utilize me as a financial adivsor, but if I take a small role, whether it is educational coordinator, president, growth and retention, when I do what I say I am going to do and I do it right, I am reinforcing that brand that I want communicated. They’ll say, “Hey, I had Dan do something. He does it. He does it right.”

That is just one more way to cement the brand and reputation that I’d like to have. So when that opportunity comes and you have that 3 million dollar 401K plan that you want to introduce me to, you’ll have the full faith and confidence that I will be able to deliver because your only experience with me is that any responsibility I have taken I have done right.

So I just put myself in the position to continually build my brand, be on the forefront, be in a leadership capacity one way or another. It also helps the group, too, because we need people who are going to do what they say they are going to do. It’s very, very helpful for me.

Ivan:
You bring up a very good point on this one. It’s a subtle but significant point. You say that when you do what say you are going to do, when you follow up, when you act professionally, when you perform in a chapter’s leadership team role or some kind of leadership role, people see that. They observe that. It increases your credibility. It increases the opportunities for you to get referrals because it produces more credibility. A lot of times people forget how important it is to take on leadership roles so that they can really stand out in the chapter.

Well, Dan, we are almost out of time. Give us your- this is BNI, so we at least have to let you get a plug in here. Give us your website for your business.

Dan:
Okay. My website is www.DanRomero.com. We, just very quickly, specialize in just two folks. That is high net worth individuals with a half a million or more in net assets. Then our niche specifically is with company corporate retirement plans that are 10 million in size. We work as a consultant to the owner of the company to make sure that they are in compliance with all the fiduciary regulations. Most business owners aren’t aware that they have a personal liability even if they have a corporate statute or set up with regards to how the retirement plan is set up. We assist at that level.

Ivan:
Dan, I want to thank you for being on our podcast today. There was a lot of great material, and I hope that it will be of value to our members. I thank you very much for being here, and I hope our paths cross again.

Dan:
Absolutely. Glad to help.

Priscilla:
You’re welcome. Thank you Ivan. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you will join us again next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

Happy New Year and welcome back to Tom Fleming, who joins Dr. Misner to tell us how you can run a BNI meeting with up to 70 members.

Open Networking usually takes place 20-30 minutes before the meeting.

Chapter Educational Moment is limited to 3 minutes.

60-Second Introduction becomes a 30-second introduction.

Referrals Members are encouraged only to state the number of referrals, thank-yous, and dance-cards. We might not ask all the visitors what they liked most about the meeting. Members go first, visitors afterwards.

Announcements are pre-screened by leadership team members for length and appropriateness.

It’s important to include every part of the BNI meeting agenda.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 186 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone. Happy New Year and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, CA. I am joined today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan. How are you?

Ivan:
I am doing great, Priscilla and I want to wish everybody a new year, at least a new calendar year. There are different new years. We have to remember that we are global, and so it’s a different new year for different people around the globe. It’s a different calendar year for most of BNI.

I am in Palm Springs at our Executive Management Team for our organization. We get all of our top managers together aruound the world and we meet. Today we are going to have a really special podcast with, I think, the only person- Priscilla correct me if I am wrong. I think Tom Flemming is the only person that we have had on three times. Is that right?

Priscilla:
Absolutely.

Ivan:
Tom, this is your third visit, right?

Tom:
And it’s great to be here yet again.

Ivan:
Yes. Thank you. You are our first person on three times. We have a great topic to start the new year. 50, no 60, no 70 members at a BNI meeting. Tom, how can that be done? That is the question that so many people have asked in your previous podcasts. How in the world do you do a meeting with up to 70 members? You are going to tell us all how you do that.

Tom:
I think everybody has pieces of the pie, pieces of the puzzle out there. But I think the beauty of this podcast is it answers the question in one fell swoop- how to run the full BNI meeting agenda with 40-70 members in the room plus guests. I know it is a weekly challenge for many chapters.

Ivan:
It really is. Especially for those groups that have been very successful, getting over on time is very, very difficult. Let’s get to some key points on the meeting. What about open networking. What do you do with open networking?

Tom:
Well, open networking- most members of a large chapter tend to enthusiastically arrive at the meeting 20 -30 minutes early anyways before the start of the meeting. So open networking for the larger chapters actually transpires prior to the formal part of the meeting. Members at large actually take their seats right at the start of the meeting with the president opening up the meeting, whether that is at 7:00, 7:30 or 11:30, whenever the meeting starts.

Ivan:
Chapter educational moment. That is another important part of the meeting. What do you do with that?

Tom:
Sure. The BNI agenda calls for a three to five minute spot. In a large chapter, definitely keep that to three minutes.

Ivan:
What about the 30-Second Introduction? What you are doing in the group as a 30-Second Introduction is commonly known as a 60-Second Introduction. How do you handle that one?

Tom:
This is obviously where we save a whole lot of time. I mean, 60 members doing a 60-Second Introduction, that’s 60 minutes. There are companies that can pay millions of dollars to get their message across in 30 seconds for a Super Bowl commercial. So why can’t we? Setting the introductions at 30 seconds puts us in the position of planning and preparing our introductions in pursuit of keeping them crisp and to the point. 30-Second Introductions also allow the members the opportunity to execute the meeting in terms of, or in pursuit of doubling the size of the chapter to triple the referrals. In fact, even chapters with 25-30 members do 30-Second Introductions because they know that in order to be a big chapter, they have to act like a big chapter.

Ivan:
Let me stop you there for just a second. I have found so many groups, when they are small, 20 members or so, because they have the time, they just kind of meander through the meeting and take up the full amount of time. So they really struggle when they get to 30, 40, 50 members because they meandered early on, and it’s hard to make the change down the road.

Tom:
I think it’s all about creating a solid culture right up front.

Ivan:
Yeah. Great. So anything else on the 60-Second or 30-Second Introductions?

Tom:
No. I think 30 second introductions is more than enough time for members to get their points across.

Ivan:
And you have guests doing 30 seconds as well. Is that right?

Tom:
Absolutely. They are afforded that time.

Ivan:
What do you do with the 10-Minute Presentation?

Tom:
Actually, two members are afforded a 10-Minute Presentation per week. Some of the really large chapters with 60 or 70 members do 8-Minute Presentations. The members love that because they get twice as many 10-Minutes Presentations through the year.

Ivan:
Now for one of the most important parts of the meeting, the referral portion. What do you do with that one?

Tom:
Well, this has been a big problem for chapters in the past, where they get themselves way off track because it’s kind of the culture of the organization that this isn’t a timed portion of the meeting per se. In pursuit of executing the most important part of the meeting, leadership teams have been doing a great job of coaching their members to stay during the referral portion of the meeting. The number of referrals they have, the dance cards, or thank you for closed business items. And then take their seat. Unless, of course, someone has a wonderful story about how they generated a referral for someone or a powerful testimonial.

The point is keep that referral portion of the meeting focused on the reporting of referrals, dance cards, and the reporting of closed business. It keeps the referral portion of the meeting tight yet powerful. Also, with respect to the referral portion of the meeting, we always ask the guests what they liked best about the meeting, correct?

Ivan:
Yes.

Tom:
Well, if there is 8, 10 or 15 guests, instead of asking all of them what they liked best about the meeting, we might ask three to five.

Ivan:
Interesting. When you do that, do you have everybody go around? Do you stop at the visitors’ end? Do you just have members go and then ask can you have two or three visitors share what they liked best about the meeting? Do you separate it out , or do you have them even as you go?

Tom:
Have to separate it out because when you are asking the guest what they liked best about the meeting, you want them to see the entire referral portion of the meeting first so that they can comment on, “Oh my gosh. I can’t believe how many referrals were passed.”

Ivan:
It’s a little bit different than most meetings. You are passing the visitor, rather than asking what they liked. Then you are coming back to them at the end and you’re asking for a handful to comment on what they liked. Correct?

Tom:
It is correct, but it is no different than how we do the Intromercials. We have the members deliver their Intromercials first and the guests go next. So we have already established that culture or protocol with the third or second introduction.

Ivan:
I am totally good with that. I love it. It’s a great way to do this for big chapters. You have a big chapter. It’s an outstanding suggestion. The whole idea of- with a lot of groups, I see them say the referral part of the meeting should be 30 seconds or less. Oftentimes, I see them do this section first where they cut back. Here, you are saying don’t even give it a limit. Say it in a sentence or two, except when you have a story. When you have a great story, keep it under a minute. Did I summarize it reasonably well?

Tom:
I think that is a great way to say it. Our intention is to keep it crisp.

Ivan:
Keep it crisp. Not to necessarily time it. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. They are standing up and doing it very quickly unless one person has such a story and they go into detail. I think that is a great approach. I like it. What are your last thoughts in terms of wrapping up for the announcements and whatever else is at the end of the meeting.

Tom:
Sure. The announcement portion can be a big area where chapters get off track as well. What a lot of chapters are doing is they are having announcements pre-screened, if you will, by the leadership team to make sure that the announcements are appropriate, that they are maybe not ling winded. It also gives the leadership team to say, “Okay, we are going to have two or three announcements versus 15 or 10 announcements. So we can control the announcement portion of the meeting so it is one to three minutes rather than five to ten. Really, from there, bing, bang , boom. We are out the door at 8:30, 9:00 or 1:00, whenever a group’s meeting is supposed to be over.

The most important part of all of this is hitting every aspect of the BNI meeting agenda. It is a recipe. Nothing is skipped. Everything is included. We are just focused on having a great productive meeting. Most of the guests respond with, “I can’t believe the structure that is associated with this thing, and I cannot believe the productivity and the level of activity that you guys produce within an hour and a half meeting. I’m just amazed.”

Ivan:
I want to emphasize that you mentioned that you cover the agenda and all of the crucial pieces of the meeting. And you have chapters- your average membership is close to 40 members per chapter. Is that correct?

Tom:
Yes, yes.

Ivan:
You are close to 40 members per chapter. You have about 40 chapters. Is that right?

Tom:
Yes. We have about- we are going for 40 chapters with 40 members. Maybe we will be at 50 someday. Who knows?

Ivan:
I just have to say that is, to me, amazing. I know in our previous podcast. I said I remember the first time we had a chapter with more than 30 members. We kicked it off and had 30 members, and I wondered if that could ever happen again. And here we have a region in Florida that has 40 chapters with an average of 40 members, and that just blows me away. You have one chapter, the Profitmakers, that has over 70 members. Does it not?

Tom:
Yes. It is currently around 70. Their meetings are tight. They do have a tough time running through the full agenda in 90 minutes, but they do it. They do a wonderful job.

Ivan:
I have been to meetings with groups of 60 or 70- my biggest was 80 members- and it is hard to get it over on time. Do you ever add time? Do any of your chapters maybe start a little earlier?

Tom:
We have never tried that. Again, the open networking happens before 7:00 a.m. and we start promptly at 7:00 and out the door by 8:30. Some of our meetings start at 7:30 and run till 9:00.

Ivan:
So in a way, you are starting a little earlier. You do your open networking before 7:00 a.m. and you start the meetings at 7:00 or whatever time it starts. But you’re kind of doing open networking about 15 minutes earlier. Is that right?

Tom:
Correct, but attendance is still taken at the 7:00, 7:30 or 11:30 time.

Ivan:
Well, these are great suggestions. If you are a BNI member and you are in a chapter of- actually, this is great for even smaller chapters, 20 -25 members, to start thinking big. These are the kinds of things that you are going to want to do. If you are in a group of 30, 40, 50, 60 members, then these are the things that you have to do.
I think, Tom, you have given some outstanding suggestions.

Start the meeting 15 minutes early. Have the open networking- and by the way, the group that I went to that had 80 members in Canada did open networking before 7:00. They started just as you are describing here. Run a little tighter education moment. Do 30-Second Introductions instead of the 60. Cut your speakers down to eight minutes when necessary. Otherwise they get two speakers at 10. Keep the referral part of the meeting short and sweet. Boom, boom, boom. If you have a story, allow a little more time and then keep the announcements portion on track. Is that a good summary of what you do with big groups to get a meeting over on time?

Tom:
Perfect summary. Great. Thank you.

Ivan:
Tom, you are an outstanding Executive Director. I wish I had about 200 more just like you. You do a wonderful job of running a great region. I am so proud of the Tampa region and what you have done there. You have some incredible chapters and incredible members. I want to thank you for being a guest on my podcast, and I’m telling you this podcast is going to have legs. This is a podcast that is going to last in the organization for many years for chapters to hear the secrets to running a big group and running it in the BNI system. I want to thank you for being my guest. Anything that you want to add before I close up?

Tom:
Just thank you for your leadership and Happy New Year, everybody.

Ivan:
Thanks Tom. We really appreciate your advice. For members who are listening to this, save this one, share this one with your BNI members. It’s great advice on how to run a meeting. By the way, we did this because of your last podcast. We got so much feedback from them on yeah, great, you built it to 40, 50 or 60, but how do you run it? We had so many people ask about that, and that’s why we’re doing this podcast today. So thanks a lot, Tom. Priscilla, back to you.

Priscilla:
Okay great. Thank you, Tom and thank you, Dr. Misner. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

In a BNI meeting, the “memory hook” isn’t as important as when you’re meeting strangers. To give a great 60-second presentation requires specificity and asking for a referral.

The best 60-second commercial Dr. Misner ever saw was done by a florist in Chattanooga Tennessee. He used visual aids: a rose from a grocery store, and one of his own roses. He compared the two, demonstrating how far superior his rose was, and concluded by saying “There’s only 3 cents difference in price. Theirs is more.”

Why was this presentation so good?

• He led with value.
• He trained a sales force.
• He was extremely specific.
• It was memorable.

Remember, Specific Is Terrific. The more you can train a sales force, the better results you’ll get.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 182 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, CA. I am joined today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner.  Hello Ivan. How are you?

Ivan:
I am doing great, Priscilla. Today I am going to talk about a topic that I am often asked when I travel around the world and I talk to chapters about BNI and about networking. Many people ask me how do you do a good 60-second presentation?

One of the first things that I say to people that actually surprises them is I wish we’d stop focusing so much on memory hooks. We spend way too much time on memory hooks, and I know I have talked about that in another podcast. Memory hooks are great techniques to use, maybe during visitor’s day. But the whole idea behind a memory hook is to have people remember who you are, but of course, in a BNI meeting, after a few weeks, people ought to remember who you are.

So you have to be really specific in your presentation. In last week’s podcast, I used the expression “specific is terrific.” That’s so true.

As I travel around, people ask me what are some examples of a great 60-second presentation? What I thought I would do, because I have never done that in my podcast, is share with the listeners the best 60-second presentation that I have ever heard. I’ll try to do it in real time, but he had visuals, so I have to describe the visuals that he had and that shortens it.

Basically, it was a florist that I saw do a 60-second intro or commercial in Chattanooga, TN. The florist stood up when it was his turn, he reached under the tanble, and pulled out a single rose. The rose was maybe 8-12” long, kind of small but it was in good shape. And it had cellophane around it.  You have seen roses in grocery stores, where they’ll sell a single rose, right, with cellophane around it?

Priscilla:
Right.

Ivan:
It had a grocery store sticker on it. He’s a florist. It had a grocery store sticker on it. He held up the rose and said, “What do you guys think of this rose?”

Everybody looked at it, and they knew it came from a grocery store, but nobody would say anything because it looked really good. He said, “It’s okay. You can be honest. This is a pretty good looking rose, isn’t it? I bought it at the Winn Dixie grocery store right next door. They do a pretty nice job on their roses.” Then he said, “Let me show you my rose.”

He reached under the table, and he pulled out a rose. Priscilla, I swear, this thing had to be 18” to two feet long. It was gigantic. Huge. Really big. And the flower was two or three times the size of the flower from the grocery store. He held them both up by the bottom. He said, “Here is the my rose. Look at how thick the stem is from the roses that we sell in my store.

The stem was almost as thick as a pencil, very thick. He said, “The larger the stem, the thicker the stem, the more water it draws up into the stem and into the rose, so the rose can be much larger, and more importantly, it will live longer. A rose like this can live anywhere from three to five days longer and be in good shape than a small stemmed rose like this. Here’s the Winn Dixie rose.” He held it from the very tip- imagine pinching your fingers together and holding it from the very tip at the bottom- and was waving it around back and forth. So it was waving around like a dead fish, right? He said, “Here’s the Winn Dixie rose.”

Then he held his rose from the bottom and did the same thing. It didn’t budge. “Here’s the Winn Dixie rose. Here’s my rose. There’s only three cents difference in price. Theirs is more.”

Priscilla:
[laughs in surprise]

Ivan:
And that was the reaction from the audience. It was like, wow!

Now, it’s hard to do this in a recording, in a podcast, but visually, I want everyone to visualize seeing two different roses, substantially different. One is big and beautiful and one is small and very attractive. You know, he could have picked- look, he could have gone to the grocery store. We have all been to grocery stores. He could have picked some skankly old beat up rose and said,”Look. Here’s what the grocery store sells.” But he picked a good rose and tried to compare a good rose from there to a good rose from his store.

He said, “Here’s a grocery store rose. Here’s my rose. Look at the difference in the stems. They’re basically only three cents difference in price. Mine’s cheaper.” That was so powerful. I looked around the room, and everybody in that room was going, I’m an idiot if I buy roses at the grocery store. Not only am I getting a higher perceived value, but his costs me less. His looks better and costs less.

To me, that Priscilla, was probably one of the best examples of a 60-second introduction that I have ever heard in my life because he was truly training a sales force. He was being laser-specific. He spent that presentation strictly talking about a rose. However, I could see him at his floral shop behind the scenes training an employee on the difference between grocery store roses and their floral shop roses. I could see him teaching an employee that.

So for those of you listening, the more you can break your business down into small parts, least or lowest common denominator, small pieces and talk about those pieces- be specific. The more you can educate people about your products and services, the better the results that you  are going to get from your fellow members. It’s because you are giving them something they can really envision and remember when they are out buying something.

I guarantee you that everybody who went to the grocery store or went any place thought of his roses the next time they were thinking of buying flowers.

Priscilla:
I think it was so clever that his rose cost less. That is the last thing that you’d ever expect.

Ivan:
Yeah, you’re right. You are absolutely right. The funny thing is if he would have said, look, it’s only 5% more, 10% more, or even 20% more, I think people would have thought, yeah, that makes sense. For 20% more, look at how much better it is. But no, it was a few pennies less. I think everybody in there was shocked. It was such a powerful way of showing value.

Many of our members are selling services or products where we are not the low-cost leader. It is rare that a BNI member is the low-cost leader. We are not the Wal-Mart of products and services as a rule. BNI is made up of professionals and members who are selling a product or their time, that is not the cheapest. So you have to lead it with value. That’s what he did. He led it with value. In this particular case, it was less than a grocery store, but in any case, it’s all about the value. You have to focus on the value and what sets you apart from your competition. He did that just brilliantly.

Priscilla:
Oh that’s good. I like that.

Ivan:
That, Priscilla, is the best 60-second presentation I have ever heard in the more than two and a half decades of running BNI. The one thing that we can all learn from this- because we are not all in the flower business, but the one thing we can all learn from this is that specific is terrific. And if you teach people specific parts of your business and how to look for opportunities to refer you or to use your products and services, then you’re giving people something to hang their hat on, something to say, hey, I know a little bit about flowers and this is why this is better than that.

It’s very important to do, and the more you can educate your members as though you were training a sales force, the more successful you are going to be at this.

Priscilla:
Great. I am already thinking well, I could bring in a very badly recorded piece of music and then show them afterwards how wonderful it sounds when it has gone through my studio.

Ivan:
Yeah. Absolutely. That’s a great example. I have not seen that done with a recording. I would love to see how that plays out, no pun intended. That’s great. I have seen it done with commercial graphics, the same thing. Somebody in a chapter I went to many years ago brought in the hand drawing that the customer brought into her store. Then  she showed the first draft mock up of what they designed after the hand drawing. You were like, wow! What a difference. Then she had the final version, full color. It went from a pencil drawing to a black and white graphic, which looked really good, to a full color piece. It was like, wow! What an amazing difference!

So yeah, something recorded would be another great example of it.

Priscilla:
Those show and tell things are fantastically important.

Ivan:
Yep, they really are. You bring up another good point. He had somehting that he brought in, and the more you can bring something in and do a show and tell, the easier it is for people  to visualize what you are saying. That’s why having it there works better and is actually quicker than me trying to explain it in a recording.

Priscilla:
Yeah. That’s a great idea. Thank you, Ivan. Do you have anything else to add to that?

Ivan:
That’s it for today, but if you have listened to this podcast and you have seen or heard a great 60-second commercial that you think was very powerful, just in a few sentences, put it in the comments here in the podcast and let me know how you are going to apply it to your 60-second presentation. I would love to get the feedback from the listeners. Thanks, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Oh, you are so welcome. Well, I would like to just remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thanks for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

Jim Butcher from Capital Trust Realty, “retired” president of the East Texas and Houston East region of BNI, joins Dr. Misner to talk about how his chapter used Fast Track to ensure that every single member brings 3-4 referral every week. That’s more than 300 referrals per month, up from 100-150 before the program.

The Pareto Principle says that 20% of the people yield 80% of the results. Chapters that find themselves in this position are usually operating at the Visibility level of the VCP process. Once you get to Credibility, you can get 80% of the members bringing results.

One technique they applied is to focus their 60-second commercials on asking for referrals, and even asking for introductions to specific people.

Sign your chapter up for the Fast Track program at www.bninetworkingsecrets.com. Make sure to contact Flynn or Sara to arrange for additional coaching.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 181 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the web for networking downloadables. I’m Priscilla Rice, and I’m coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, California, and I’m joined on the phone today by the Founder and the Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan. How are you and who do you have with us today?

Ivan:
Thanks Priscilla, I am doing great and I have with us on the phone today Jim Butcher. Jim calls himself the retired President of the BNI Stategic Alliance. In BNI Houston East, he was the Chapter President, just transitioned. He is a commercial real estate agent, a fellow black belt in karate, and he has been a member of BNI for five years as of the recording of this podcast. Jim, I welcome you to this podcast. Thanks for being a member of BNI.

Jim:
Thank you, Ivan. I appreciate it.

Ivan:
Today we are going to talk abnout an interesting concept, turning the 80/20 rule upside down, and it stems from a program that you did called Fast Track. I know we have talked about it on some of the podcasts, and we’ll certainly talk about it towards the end. But a lot of the concepts that we are going to be talking about today really stem from that.

So let’s start if we can. How do you turn the 80/20 rule upside down? What do you have in mind there?

Jim:
What happens in our chapter is that we have 20% of the people doing 80% of the work. I am pretty sure that is standard across the board in a lot of BNI chapters out there. What we were so fortunate to do is have 80% of the people doing 100% of the work. So instead of people bringing no referrals, we now have every single member of the chapter bringing three to four referrals per week. We are talking with a chapter of 40 people, upwards of around the range of 250-300 referrals per month based on the the participation of the chapter members.

Ivan:
300 referrals a month, that is amazing. I want members to sit and think about that for a minute. Wouldn’t it be amazing to be in a group that is passing 300 referrals a month? That is outstanding. You mentioned the 80/20 rule. That is actually a part of the Pareto Principle and economic theory. It is a common concept that seems to work pretty consistently, that 20% of the people do 80% of the results. So you are talking about 80% of your people yielding 100% of the results. I love that. Continue on, I’m sorry.

Jim:
Basically what we have is every member of the chapter participates, and what this equates to in the VCP process is that every member becomes credible and even profitable within the entire group. What we have seen from it all, from some of the other chapters that I have been to, is that the chapters that are having a problem with the 80/20 rule are in the visibility category.

So once we are able to bring our chapter to the credibility and profitiblity category, we have a lot more participation and referrals.

Ivan:
Wow. That is amazing. Now, you have some results with retention in the group as well. Would you like to talk about that?

Jim:
Retention is just a part of people making money. We are in the business to give referrals but it is also great to receive referrals. When people are receiving referrals that they are looking to get, we have a lot of chapter members who feel a value of being there, that their time is well spent because the most important part of their membership is putting time and effort into it.

Ivan:
A lot of the successes that you have come out of the Fast Track thing that I want to talk about in a few minutes. Where would you say you started really focusing on turning the 80/20 rule around and started focusing on retention and your 60- second commercials, which we are going to talk about in a minute. Where do you think you started in this process? How many referrals month were you passing as a group at your low point to what you are doing now at your high point?

Jim:
On the average when we started, we thought we were pretty successful. We were passing about 150-175 referrals per month. Like I said, we thought we were pretty successful, and afterwards when we started implementing some of the strategies and really sticking to the curriculum, we just saw the results skyrocket through the roof.

Ivan:
You were literally passing double the number of referrals that you do. What were the membership-I am guessing membership went up. I am guessing it didn’t double but it increased. So what happened to your membership?

Jim:
Over the time that I have been there, back when they allowed the chapters to charter at 12-

Ivan:
Bad idea, we don’t want to do that anymore. Bad, bad idea.

Jim:
We chartered our chapter and 12 and then we grew our chapter up to 50 members. When we implemented the procedures for this, we were at about 30 members. And we grew our chapter up to about 50.

Ivan:
I don’t have a calculator in front of me, so maybe a 70% increase in growth but more than 100% increase in referrals. That is where I was headed with this. I didn’t know the numbers but I am not at all surprised because when chapters really tend to focus on the quality of the relationships, the quantity of referrals increases, and the quality of the referrals goes up with it. It is not necessarily direct. You don’t have to have 100% increase in members to have 100% increase in referrals.

Jim:
Absolutely, It brings out the quality of referrals to increase because now they understand those leads that you know makes us all cringe.

Ivan:
Talk to us about the 60-second commercials because you are doing something different with it as well.

Jim:
Sure. What happened in the 60-second commercials, what happened more in the visibility, pre-visiblity, is we would would try to explain our business. For example, I am in commercial real estate, so I would say, “I am in commercial real estate, and I am here to educate you on your commercial real estate. You know, they have a new law that is coming out…” After 60 seconds, I haven’t asked for a referral. In the whole 60 seconds after doing that, I haven’t asked for a referral. Now, instead of that, laser-specific- “I’d like to talk tell you about the Capital Trust property deal of the week. The property is located at XYZ and it is a beautiful location for a restaurant. This week, I am looking for introductions to Jean Smith who is the restaurant owner in the Clear Lake area, and also third tier contact spheres, James Madeline who heads the economic development for Webster. My name is Jim Butcher. I am a commercial real estate broker with Capital Trust Realty. Experience the difference, profit from the result.”

Ivan:
That is a great example. One of the things that I tell people is that specific is terrific. The more specific that you are in your education, the more likely you are to get a referral. I am guessing that type of specificity has yielded much better results in your chapter. Yes?

Jim:
Yeah, kind of counter intuitive, but actually, you know, people just go, “I don’t know that person per se, but I know this guy. Let me introduce you to him.”

Ivan:
You made a statement that I think I talk about a lot on one of the CDs. It’s counterintuitive. You are absolutely right. It is totally counterintuitive because people want to say everything you do and give the big picture, but when you do that there is nothing for people to hang an hat on anything or to jog their memory or thought process for you, your product or service. The specificity really makes a world of difference, doesn’t it?

Jim:
Absolutely.

Ivan:
Listen, Jim, what is the name of your commercial- We might as well give you a shameless plug because you came on with me here. What is the name of your commercial real estate office?

Jim:
Our boutique firm down here in Houston is called Capital Trust Realty.

Ivan:
Great. What is your website?

Jim:
www.ctrclearlake.com

Ivan:
Great. Jim, I appreciate you coming on and talking about how you have turned your chapter around. That is why we did this podcast. I wanted people to really see how you can take a good chapter and make it into a great chapter. You did that using the Fast Track program which we have mentioned a couple of times here and we have mentioned it a couple of times in the podcast. The Fast Track program is not a set of BNI CDs. It is a set of CDS done by BNI Del Fuego Company. The ladies who run Del Fuego- what I really love about this product is it is really not the CDs that make it worth it- it’s all their coaching and guidance. Wouldn’t you agree?

Jim:
I totally agree with that.

Ivan:
Anybody can put a couple of CDs out. But I love these people, and they believe in Givers Gain. Sarah and Flynn really believe in Givers Gain, and when a chapter engages in the Fast Track program, they don’t just prove them a CD set, but the do ongoing coaching and consulting. Can you give the listeners just a little feel for the kinds of things they do?

Jim:
Yeah, absolutely. Every Friday they – one Friday they have the EC training. And then the other Friday they have the Fast Track call. It is kind of a support group for all of us who are going through it, how to implement it and how to stay on task and goals and so on and so forth.

Ivan:
And your entire chapter went through the Fast Track program with them, yes?

Jim:
The entire chapter.

Ivan:
The results were amazing, right?

Jim:
Absolutely.

Ivan:
I appreciate you doing this podcast with me. Houston has had incredible success in the last couple of years. As a region, we have a traffic light region that we use. It starts with no light (black), then goes to red, goes to yellow, and goes to green. As a region, the Houston East region went, in the period of a year, from black to green, which is just unheard of in our organization, just unheard of to have this kind of growth. It is really, I think, because many of the chapters in that region are using the Fast Track sytem. I appreciate you coming on and talking about it. For any of the podcast listeners who would like to get more information on Fast Track, go to BNInetworkingsecrets.com. That is a website that was put up by the Del Fuego publishing company. BNInetworkingsecrets.com. But don’t just get a CD. What you want to do there is click on the “Contact Us” and ask Sarah or Flynn there what it takes to make Fast Track work in your chapter. I think you will see the kind of results that Jim is talking about here. Jim, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the podcast. I will turn it back over to Priscilla.

Jim:
Thank you, Ivan.

Priscilla:
Well great. Thank you both. I think that is it for this week. I would just like to remind the listener that this podcast has been brought to you by NetWorkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you will join us next week for the next exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

This week Dr. Misner wants to talk about the “Yeah, But” syndrome, which is really just an excuse to avoid doing something we don’t want to do. When it comes to ourselves, we’re always the exception. We think rules are for other people. But there’s no good excuse for avoiding personal development.

Stop trying to avoid the proven methods. The basics work. No exception. BNI operates in 44 countries. Your chapter, your profession, can succeed if you’re willing to put in the effort. We’ll all be better off if we stop hiding behind our differences and look for the similarities.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 178 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, CA. I am joined today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan. How are you?

Ivan:
Hi Priscilla. Doing great. I wanted to talk about something I call the Yeah But Factor. The Yeah But Factor goes something like, “Yeah, but I’m different than the situation. My area is different.” It is something I have seen for many, many years and I thought it would make for great conversation after last week’s podcast with Tom Fleming, where Tom is in a region in Florida where his predicessor could not get chapters going.

The thing I kept hearing was, “Yeah, but we’re different here in Florida.” Listen, the more we say we are different, the truth is the more there are similarities. Tom has proven that. He is running a tremendous region. I thought it would be good to talk about this concept today, “Yeah, I’m different.”

I’d like to begin with some information about an old friend of mine, Don Osbourne, who many years ago shared with me some material that he wrote about being different, what he called the “I am different” sydrome, which is basically just a syndrome avoid doing something that we really just don’t want to do. I have revised it a bit and am sharing it in this podcast because I think people will find it interesting, especially after Tom’s podcast last week, where he talked about systems,following the program, and goals.

When it comes to ourselves, we are always the exception. Everybody else should do what has been proven to work, but self development works once we stop treating ourselves as the exception. It’s true that everyone is unique, but it is not different when it comes to self development. Perhaps it’s only procrastination that leads us to declare that we are all different or that our circumstances prevent us from agreeing to follow proven methods of self improvement. Maybe it’s the fear of success or fear of failure- all kinds of legitimate concerns. But none is an adequate excuse for not engaging in self development activities. There is no good excuse for not following the basics.

I, for one, believe that activiites like BNI are all about self development. It’s all about building a personal network. Everybody who ever achieved success has succumed to the basics. In fact- I saw this when I was writing the book, Masters of Success- many success stories include fighting the urge to reinvent the wheel and sticking with what has been proven to work. Why we fight City Hall on I’ll succeed without doing what has been proved, I’ll just never know. But it’s a fight you are going to have to lose if you want to win the battle for improved lifestyle.

I think that is really true when you are talking about business networking. It shouldn’t take a tragedy or a major event to send you down the road of self-development. True, most success stories we hear about, or those that grab the headlines are like that. You could wait for or create a spectacular situation to spur you on, but most stories of success really go untold because they weren’tborn out of tragedy. They were born out of frustration and bing sick and tired of just being sick and tired.

I see it today in the economy, the global recession. People are sick and tired of just being sick and tired. The reality is that most of us are living out our own sort of story of quiet desperation, and that is enough, really, to make you different, but the kindof different that qualifies you as unique and therefore a candidate of the tried and true methods of self development.

I love this concept that Don wrote about and I have taken some liberties with. He was focusing on self development, but I really believe that what we teach in BNI- these podcasts are all about self development. They are all about improving your skillset and developing your personal network. I think the real irony of these podcasts, or any education that is out there, is that the people who need it most often don’t listen to the podcast.

Those people who are engaged in self development, they are the ones listening to this. The more we can get our fellow members also engaged in the process, the more successful I believe our chapters will be. So I would echo Don’s comments and I’d love to hear what you think of this, Priscilla. Don ended what he wrote many years ago- and by the way, I put this on our BNI Directors Manual because I loved it so much. It said, “Stop hiding behind this excuse of ‘I’m different.’ Accept what all who have succeeded know. The basics work, no exception.”

Tom Fleming talked about baking a cake but changing the recipe and expecting the same result. You’re expecting a certain cake, but your’re not going to get that when you are changing the recipe. That is what BNI is all about. I thought this would be a great follow through from Tom’s podcast last week.

Priscilla:
Well, if you want me to comment, I’m going to say that my chapter is called “No Ordinary Chapter.” So we have a culture of wanting to be different. I think that part of it comes from not wanting to be too rigid and so it’s difficult to follow all of your policies if you kind of have a culture of wanting to be a little bit looser, more creative and so forth. But you know, I really hear what you are saying and it really makes sense. You have proven certain policies work, and so then it just behooves us to follow them, improve upon them, and make them even better.

Ivan:
I really do believe that many times, people use “Yeah, but I’m different” approach because the truth is they just don’t like the idea. It’s hard work. They don’t want to do some of the things that we’ve talked about or the tried and true things to be successful. It’s easier to just say that it’s different here, we’re different, the community is different, or the city is different, or the country is different- when in fact, BNI operates in 44 countries. And it’s the same program in all 44 countries.

Priscilla:
That is amazing in itself.

Ivan:
That is amazing to me. And it goes back to a concept. Years ago, I had lunch with Brian Tracy, a well known expert on management and sales. I had lunch with him and I asked him whether he did training a differently- I think we may have talked about this in our podcast a long time ago- if he did training differently in other countries, multilingual. He said that no, he does his sales training the same. I said yeah, but those other countries have a different culture. He said yeah, but if you can teach people how to do things more efficiently or effectively, they are going to do it.

Then I started to think about the fact that we all live in an entrepreneurial culture and that transcends our cultural differences because we all want to do things more efficiently or effectively. If we can teach people how to do things more efficiently or effectively, that transcends what differences there are. We have to focus on our similarities as opposed to our differences.

That’s all I have today, and I know we are out of time, Pricsilla. Thanks a lot.

Priscilla:
Okay great, Ivan. Thank you so much. That’s it for this week, and I’d just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thanks so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you’ll join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.