We mentioned exit interviews in Episode 222; in this episode, Dr. Misner explains how exit interviews came to BNI.

Many years ago a terrific BNI member, someone who really seemed to love BNI, quit unexpectedly. Dr. Misner designed an exit interview and found out that the real reason the member was leaving was because another member had behaved unethically. The membership committee confronted this other member and removed the person from the chapter, allowing the first member to stay.

Here are some of the questions in an exit interview:

• What are your reasons for leaving?
• Did you find that BNI was beneficial to you?
• What did you like most about BNI?
• Was there anything you disliked about BNI? If so, what was it and how would you change it?
• Did you feel you were well-informed about the activities and benefits of BNI?
• Did you meet for lunch with other members of the group? How often?

Take this podcast to your leadership team. And download your own copy of “The Significance and Value of the Exit Interview” below.

Download (PDF, 209.89KB)

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 230 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I come to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you and where are you?

Ivan:
Hi Priscilla. This week I am at the international BNI conference in Long Beach. I talked about it in last week’s podcast. We have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people coming here now. The conference starts tomorrow. We do this every year. It’s like going to a UN conference. It’s really an amazing experience. Members are welcome to come on the member’s day, which is on Friday every year. So just look at BNI.com in November of every year and if a BNI member anywhere in the world would like to come, you are welcome. We had somebody from Africa come last year.

Priscilla:
Wow. I know it’s very interesting to meet all of the people from all over the world. It gives you a real sense of how big the organization is.

Ivan:
It really does. No question about it. Today I am going to talk about the value of exit interviews. I thought I would start with a couple of things. First of all, I made reference to an exit interview in episode 222, Why Do People Leave? So if you have a chance and are listening to this podcast and you have not listened to episode 222, I think it goes hand in glove with this podcast. So take a look at that.

In that podcast, I talked about the fact that we started doing exit interviews a number of years ago, but I don’t think I gave the story about how they came about. So I thought I would open it up with this story as to how exit interviews began. What happened was that we had somebody quit a chapter and they were a great member. They seemed very, very happy. They really seemed to like the organization. So somebody said we should really ask them why. I said we should do an exit interview. They asked what that is. This is years ago, Priscilla, I couldn’t have had more than 40 chapters.

One of the kinds of things that I did as a management consultant was I designed exit interviews for companies. I said it was just a list of questions that you ask somebody when they leave. So I wrote this up for a specific member. I called him and said we are starting to do exit interviews. I didn’t want to say it was because he is leaving. That’s what I did. We were starting to do exit interviews. I just had a few questions. We asked why the person was leaving. I asked the question a couple of times in different ways. I found out, Priscilla, that the person was leaving because they were mad at another member.

Even though they said that business was really booming, business was great and they couldn’t handle it all, I found out that that wasn’t the real reason. The reason was that somebody else had kind of ripped him off in a chapter. That’s when I had an opportunity then to do some consulting, some mentoring. I said if they really wanted to leave because somebody has done something inappropriate? We should deal with that and not have you leave. He said he didn’t want to make a big deal out of it.

The thing about this guy was that I knew he was a real ethical person. I guilted him. I’ll be honest. I guilted him. I said, “If you leave, do you think this guy is going to do the same thine to someone else?” He said yes. I said, “ Then let’s do the right thing together and let me help you with the membership committee. Let’s bring this to the membership committee so that they know what happened and they can make a decision. The membership committee heard the issue and they removed the other person. So guess who stayed. The guy who was going to quit. It all started because of this exit interview.

In this podcast, I am going to review what the exit interview consists of. There is going to be a downloadable so that members can download this on their own, although this is available to leadership teams and directors. Any member can download this. I urge chapters to use this when you have people leaving. Not just anybody, but I recommend that you use it consistently in your chapter.

Priscilla:
I think it’s a great idea.

Ivan:
One of the things that we say is that the value of the exit interview is directors- but more than just directors, I think members can do this as well. I don’t recommend that it be any member. I recommend that it be the leadership team, somebody from the leadership team, or somebody from the membership committee. Anyone in authority who regularly performs exit interviews, there is a number of benefits. It allows the chapter to figure out if maybe this isn’t the right chapter.

Maybe a different chapter might work for them because of a personality conflict. It provides insight as to what a member’s impression is and how BNI can serve more effectively in terms of quality control. It can help chapters take ownership for the quality of their members and avert potential problems.

Exit interviews are a very powerful tool that I think are not utilized as much as they have been in the past in some reasons. I would urge you to have somebody in your group be responsible for doing exit interviews. Here is what the exit interview consists of. Then maybe, Priscilla, we can just chat for a few minutes if you have any questions.

The exit interview basically consists of you putting down who is interviewing, who you are interviewing and you ask them what is the reason for leaving? Do you mind telling me why you are leaving? What are the reason/s for leaving? Do you find that BNI is a benefit to your profession?

We found this in studies that we have done in the past that 20% of a chapter will leave for reasons that a chapter can’t control. I have talked about this in a previous podcast. Health problems, changing careers, moving- you are going to get 20% turnover, so if you have 40% turnover in your chapter, half of that is going to be for stuff that you can’t control. So when you ask if they feel it has been of benefit and they say yes, you find out maybe that they are leaving because of something that is really beyond your chapter’s control.

Ask them no matter what they said- whether they are leaving because they are unhappy or happy- what did you like most about BNI? Another question is was there anything that you disliked about BNI, and if so, what is it and how would you change it if you could? Did you feel that you were well informed on the benefits and activities offered to you by BNI?

Then there are five questions that are asked in the last question, sort of a yes or no. This gives you a sense of the kind of activity that the member engaged in, so if they say they didn’t get any business out of BNI, you can get a sense of whether they were engaged in the kind of activities that they needed to be in. For example, did you meet for lunch for other members of the group? Yes or no, and if so, roughly how many? Were you specific about expressing what a good referral for you was? Did you ask members if the referral you gave worked for them? Did you prepare your 60 second presentations? Did you feel you had good communication with your chapter and its members?

Really the idea is just to get people to open up and talk. Here’s and old- this isn’t in any other written material. I am going to give you and old technique as an old HR guy who has worked with human resources and studies and surveys. A concept called semantic differential questioning, when you basically ask the same question in different ways. Asking why somebody left using different words will oftentimes get different answers.

What was the reason for leaving? What was one of the most important factors in your decision to leave? You don’t do this one right after the other. You might do one in the beginning, throw another one in the middle and one at the very end. What’s the bottom line, Priscilla, on why you left? You only do that when you have somebody whom you think has another reason for leaving than what they are saying.

By using semantic differential questioning where you ask the same question in two or three different ways, I know it sounds silly, but you will get, many times, a different answer. When they say to you, you know what, you kind of asked that and they kind of answered that, then you are probably getting the answer that’s true. Again, I wouldn’t use that technique on everyone, but when you think you have someone who is not being completely candid for whatever reason, it’s a great way in an exit interview to get the bottom line, to get the information.

Knowledge is power. If you know why people are leaving, you can impact it. I highly recommend exit interviews, so go back and listen to episode 22 and put them together.

Priscilla:
Episode 222

Ivan:
Episode 222 will tie together with this episode. 22 was a long time ago.

Priscilla:
I want to just say a few things. One is that I think we definitely lost a very positive member due to something that was personal between members. He just did not want to deal with it. I think it’s really a shame because had perfect attendance, had been a member for years, and was a really great person. I think if we had done something like this, maybe we could have avoided it. He just felt really uncomfortable. He didn’t talk about what the reasoning was but it was definitely a conflict with another member. So I think it happens more often than you may think.

Ivan:
It does and people- oftentimes, there are a lot of reasons why they don’t talk about it. It may be that they just don’t want to cause waves. It might be that they don’t want to have a battle. It might be that they are just so frustrated that they don’t ever want to sit in the same room with the other person.

Priscilla:
I think it was that.

Ivan:
In a way, that is the wrong way because now you leave the person who created the problem in the chapter. Good people will do the right thing when you present it to them properly. Do you think that that person is going to do the same thing? They will often say yes. Then let’s do the right thing here and tell somebody about this.

Priscilla:
That’s a great idea. I am definitely going to take this back to my chapter and get it started because we have a very god chapter that is eight years old, but we are losing some of our newer members, so we have to figure out why.

Ivan:
That’s important. I recommend that everyone listening to this podcast, take this podcast to your leadership team. Tell your leadership team , “This is a podcast you need to listen to. I think this chapter should consider doing them.” Every chapter doesn’t need to do them. This is one of those techniques, Priscilla, where this is not BNI 101. This is BNI 401. If you don’t do this, it’s not the end of the world but if you have a really good chapter and you just want to make it better and you want to do some things- you’re already a good chapter and you want to get even better, this is a technique that really, really works.

Of course, it works on the chapters that are struggling as well, but it’s a little more complicated to deal with and it’s a little more commitment.

Priscilla:
Okay great, Ivan. I really like that.

Ivan:
Well, thanks a lot, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Okay I think that is it for this week. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

If you’re part of the leadership team and a member isn’t participating in some way, approach them and say “How can we help you (give more referrals, bring in visitors, etc.)?” The person will respond with either a “can’t do” or a “won’t do” answer.

“Can’t do” answers come from people who want to participate, but don’t know how. The solution is to educate them.

“Won’t do” answers come from people who don’t want to participate. They want to receive referrals, but not to give them. Give these people the opportunity to step down.

If they want to stay because they’re getting referrals, then insist that they contribute.

How has your BNI chapter handled the “can’t do” and “won’t do” members? How well did it work? Do you have suggestions for other listeners?

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 217 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you today and where are you?

Ivan:
I am doing great, Priscilla. Thank you very much. It is a nice summer day here in southern California. I know it is not a summer day in the southern hemisphere, but here in California, it is a nice summer day in August. I have a great topic today, one that I train on a lot with BNI leadership teams and directors, but I really haven’t talked much about this on a podcast. It’s the concept of members being a can’t do or won’t do. Let me explain what I mean about that.

Oftentimes, a leadership team or director might come up to me and say, “We’ve got a member that is just not participating.” Either they are not bringing in referrals or they are not bringing in visitors. They are just not actively engaged. One of the first things that I tell leadership teams is to sit down with the member and ask this question. It’s my magic words for customer service: how can we help you?

It’s really important that you do that because if you go up to a member and just start hammering them for not being engaged, they just get defensive. But instead, if you ask how you can help them do this, it’s a very powerful technique. It’s gold. It really is a very powerful technique because if you ask how you can help them, they will virtually always give you one of two answers. They will either give you one of two answers to that question. They will either give you a can’t do answer or a won’t do answer.

Let’s say it’s referrals. I’ll give you a real life example. We had a printer in a chapter.  We asked how we could help him bring in referrals. He was dead last. He brought in the least number of referrals in the group. We asked how we could help him and his answer was, “You know, I am really struggling with this. I am having a hard time bringing in referrals because I don’t really have much of a conversation with my clients because they don’t tell me what they need. They slap something down on my desk and say, ‘I need 1000 copies a week from tomorrow. Any questions? Great.’  They’re out the door. I don’t know if they need a CPA. I don’t know if they need a florist. I don’t know what is going on in their lives. I don’t have that kind of dialogue with them. I am struggling. I want to bring in referrals. I just don’t know how to do it.”

 That is a classic can’t do answer. They want to help. They just don’t know how to help. You know what, Priscilla? It is our responsibility to help those people. We have all been can’t dos. I was a can’t do. I didn’t know how to network.

 By the way, we came up with a great solution for this guy. We put up a board with everybody’s business card. People would come up and they would pull a business card from one of the BNI members. They would say, “Tom, what do you know about this person? Are they really good?”  He would say, “Oh yeah. I see them every week. They’re very good.” This guy went from being the worst referral generator in the group to being number one so many months in a row that they just made him the honorary winner for the year and started recognizing the second  place person.

It’s a longer story than that, but it’s a classic example of somebody being a can’t do and you teach them how to do it. It’s the won’t do people that are a real problem. When you say to somebody who  is a won’t do, “How can we help you bring in more referrals?” they’ll say something like, “It’s really difficult for me in my profession to be able to give referrals to the people in the group.” You are thinking, of course, so why are you here? Priscilla, why do you think they are there?

Priscilla:
They are there to receive referrals. That is why they are there.

Ivan:
You’ve got it. They are there to get referrals. They are just not willing to give referrals because of whatever reason. They are a won’t do. They are not going to do it. Those are the people that are a little more difficult. You can immediately alleviate the majority of the people who are not performing, and I think this applies in general business, not just BNI group. You can eliminate a majority of problems by identifying whether somebody is can’t do or won’t do. If they are a can’t do, we have to retrain and redirect. If they are a won’t do, you basically need to say- and if you open up the door to people, it is amazing how many people will quit if you simply say, “It’s okay if you step down if this isn’t for you at this time. It is okay if you step down and come back in at another time.” You’d be surprised at how many people say, “I probably should step down and quit.”

If they don’t take the bait, and want to stay because they are getting referrals, that is when you sit down with them and say in order for them to continue in the program, they have to contribute back to the chapter, whether it is bringing in visitors, referrals,  or supporting the group in some way. You have to contribute back to the chapter. But that is a much smaller number. If you can recognize whether somebody is a can’t do or a won’t do,  it is much easier for you to solve the problem.

Have you seen situations like this at all, Priscilla? What do you think of this?

Priscilla:
Absolutely. It is just about people’s attitude towards being a networker, I think. If you are a little bit embarrassed about promoting your fellow members to your friends or community, then you are  going to hold back and be a won’t do. But if there is this attitude that it is very cool to know lots of great resources and talented people, then you are going to jump at turning people on to your members.

Ivan:
Yeah. That’s all I have for today, Priscilla. I have a question for the listeners. Have you ever seen a can’t do or a won’t do in your BNI group? How would you handle them differently? How did you handle them, maybe, and how would you handle them differently in the future based on understanding this can’t do/won’t do concept. We would love for you to leave comments. I’m telling you, it’s one  of the most powerful concepts that I train on to help people: A.) stay positive and solutions focused, B.) support people who really want to be there. And C.) to move on people  who  are just there to get and not to give.

Priscilla:
That sounds good.

Ivan:
Thanks Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Great., Ivan. Thank you so much. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

This week Robin Schuckmann, Executive Director of BNI Oregon and SW Washington,  joins Dr. Misner to talk about building a cohesive team—inside and outside your BNI chapter. There are three parts to this.

Identify the Strengths of Your Team

A great tool for this is the book StrengthsFinder 2.0. Another is the Referral Institute program “Room Full of Referrals.” (See Dr. Misner’s recent blog post and video, “Your Behavior Style IS Affecting Your Referrability” for more on this topic.)

Utilize the Strengths of Your Team

People will spend longer doing the things they’re good at, so assign people roles that they have talents for. Who wants a visitor host that’s always late?

Implement Increased Communication

Example: weekly phone check-ins between the president and vice-president/treasurer of a BNI chapter help keep things on track. A quarterly chapter social builds personal relationships. Increased communication shows that you care and helps you get to know chapter members better, increasing your VCP.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 216 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you today and where are you?

Ivan:
I am doing great and this week I am meeting with my partners from the Referral Institute which is timely because one of the things that my guest is going to mention is the Referral Institute. Susan Rowan is a really good friend of BNI. She has written many books, including How to Work a Room. Susan is helping the Referral Institute do some strategic planning for the organization.

Priscilla:
That sounds great. You have a guest today. Is that right?

Ivan:
I do. Robin Schuckmann. Robin has been an Executive Director in Oregan and SW Washington for going on ten years now.  She has a team of 24 ambassadors and directors. She  works with 36 chapters and nearly 1000 members. She has traveled. This is something I didn’t know about her. She has traveled to 30 countries. She loves to learn about other cultures,  which is really good in BNI, since we are in 50 countries. She has several children, an 8 year old son, Connor, who is an April Fool’s baby. I think that is cool. And Madeline, who will be 5 in July. She lives on 9 acres of forest land with Mt St Helens at her front door. How cool is that? I think that’s amazing.

Robin has the funniest story on the planet about taking her son, Connor, to a leadership team training. Unfortunately, we don’t have time to hear about it today, but it’s a great story. If you ever meet  Robin, you have to ask her about that. One of the great things about BNI is we see a lot of working moms who are directors and certainly members. They have some great stories about their kids in BNI.

Robin, welcome to the podcast.

Robin:
Thank you.

Ivan:
You are going to be talking about building a cohesive team. You have three main topics. Identifying the strengths of your team, utilizing the strengths of your team, and implement increased communication. Let me let you jump right in and talk about identifying the strengths of your team.

Robin:
Excellent. Thank you Ivan. The main topic today is building a cohesive team because when you are putting people together to work on project, you need to make sure they can all work together. This concept applies to anyone’s business. If they work with other people, definitely in BNI and the leadership team, and if you are a director working with a team of people, many of these concepts apply equally. What I want to focus on today is the chapter leadership team.

The first things that you  want to do is identify the strengths of your team. You want to take a look at your team members as well as anyone who is added to your team in the process ongoing. Take a look at your current strengths of your existing team. There are a couple of tools that we use ongoing.  One is Strength Finder 2.0 by Tom Raff. It’s a book with descriptions of characteristics.

Ivan:
It’s a great book that you mention here, Robin. It’s called Strength Finder 2.0. It is done by the Gallup Organization, I believe. And who is the author? Tom Raff, so this is a book that we highly recommend. It is very good. Go ahead.

Robin:
One of the things that we do is have all of our team members take the survey. You get a long printout at the end with descriptions. If gives you the top five strengths. We take a look at those and make sure that we are very well covered.

We are a versatile team. The other resource that we use is a great presentation by the Referral Institute, A Roomful of Referrals. It’s  disc program. You are identifying behavioral styles. You begin to communicate better with people but also realize that you have a variety of strengths and a variety of people on your team who can do different things.

Ivan:
A Roomful of Referral is a great program. Ironically, I  just did a blog on this. If you are listening to this podcast, go to my blog, businessnetworking.com. Look at the June 30th blog. It’s a video called Your Behavioral Style Is Affecting Your Referrability. It’s a great took. If you want more information about it, go to referralinstitute.com to find out where you can possibly get a class. Go ahead, Robin.

Robin:
Thank you. It’s a great class for anyone in business. You can better understand your clients, better understand who you work with, who you want to work with. It’s a great tool.

The second topic is utilizing those strengths. Once you identify the strengths each team member has, you want to understand  what they are good at and what they enjoy. People only do things for a short time if you ask them to do something if it is not what they like to do. However, people will do  things that you ask them to do for a much longer period of time if it is something that they  truly enjoy and they are good at.

After identifying those strengths, make sure that you are putting people in a role, committee or even in a chapter- your visitor host team. You visitor host coordinator should really be somebody who has organizing skills, is always on time and loves to be on time as well as enjoys greeting people and has no problem introducing themselves as well as introducing the  visitors to other people within the chapter. We have a follow up specialist also on the visitor host team. That follow up specialist really enjoys working on the computer. They are going to enter the information into BNI Connect,  for example, maybe hand write a card, maybe making that followup phone call. If those are strengths of those people and they really enjoy doing it, then they are more likely to be very successful at it.

Then the last piece of building a cohesive team is implementing increased communications. As it relates to a chapter leadership team, for example, a president could have weekly phone check ins with their secretary, treasurer and vice president and say, “Hey, how are things going? How can I help you?What  is going on this week that I can best be prepared for?” That simple phone call can last two or three minutes or as long as fifteen, depending on how much time you need. It shows that you are truly and genuinely care about them in their business as well as in their role in the chapter. 

Having monthly leadership team meetings lets the entire chapter team know that the leadership team is   committed to the success of the chapter and the members’ businesses as well. Then a quarterly chapter social shows that the chapter want to build personal relationships as well. The idea with increased communication is that you show that you care about them as individuals as well as their business, get to know those people on a personal level,  because we all know that when passing referrals, we pass referrals to people that we know, like and trust. The best way to do that is to get to know them as a person. All of those things increase accountability.

Ivan:
This is a great list. I think it is important that the people listening wrap their heads around the key themes that you have. Basically, you are saying understand the people that you have around you in the room, with tools like Strength Finders and A Roomful of Referrals. Understand them and  figure out what people are good at. That is really important. You talk about a visitor host. You want a visitor host that is friendly and on time. There is nothing worse than a visitor host who is late. What good is that? And if they are not friendly and like to connect with people, then that is problematic. Know the strengths and how to  apply those strengths.

Then the last part is communication. That is key. I can hear members saying, “Weekly? Check in weekly? Really? I’ve got a business to run.” How would you respond to that? I have an idea, but you have been training on this content longer than I have. So what is your response to that?

Robin:
How would you treat a top dollar client? If they needed that weekly attention, wouldn’t you give them a quick phone check in? “Hey, how are you doing? How is that  order going? Did you receive everything on time?” Don’t you want to treat the people on your team as if they are your best clients as well- because they are your referral sources. If every week doesn’t work for you, maybe that is not your style. Then maybe every other week. The point is to check in  and make sure that they know that you care about the efforts that they are putting into the team as a whole.

Without that constant communication, people tend to think they must not really care about what I am doing. It’s just that extra 1 degree of enthusiasm towards making that connection and making sure that everyone is moving in the same direction.

Ivan:
You say 1 degree. Is that any reference to Boiling Point?

Robin:
Yes, the 212 Degree chapter does everything 1 degree extra with enthusiasm.

Ivan:
Right. This is a great analogy. For those of you who haven’t heard it, I apologize for those members who are outside of North America and don’t use Fahrenheit, what we are talking about here is that one degree. Going from 211 to 212, you go from lukewarm tea to boiling water. It’s just that one degree that makes a huge difference. It’s the  metaphor, I think, that Robin is referring to.  It’s so true, that old axiom that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, or something to that effect. That is really what you are talking about here. Just a little  bit of extra effort yields a big result.

That extra communication is really important if you want to  maintain a healthy chapter. The healthier the chapter, the more referrals that are generated. That’s the bottom line. It’s all about the amount of referrals that chapters are generating and the quality of referrals that they are generating.

So, Robin, we are almost out of time.  Is there anything else that you would like to share or any closing comments that you would like to give?

Robin:
In addition to your comments about the 212 degree chapter, the 211 degree average chapter does the right things, but the 212 degree chapter does the right things consistently with more enthusiasm. If you  just give it that little bit of extra attention, identify those strengths on that team, utilize those strengths, and  then increase your communications so that they know that you care, I think you are going to find that you have a very cohesive team working  toward the same results.

Ivan:
Great. Robin, thank you so much for being on the  podcast. Everyone, Robin Schuckmann. She is an executive director for Oregon and SW Washington. I really appreciate you being here and sharing your expertise with us today. Thank you so much.

Robin:
My pleasure. Thank you.

Ivan:
Priscilla, back to you.

Priscilla:
Great. Thanks,to both of you. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

BNI requires that all its  officers attend leadership team training, which is generally offered one or two  months a year. Members have sometimes suggested that the training not be required for committee members, in order to widen the pool for future candidates.

There are some problems with this idea, however. One is the “leaky bucket” process, mentioned in Episode 19 and Episode 42. If you don’t get your training at the source, the message gets diluted. Knowledge leaks out of the bucket. Teams trained this way are badly prepared.

Would you want the pilot flying your plane not to have completed training? The leadership team members are the pilots of your chapter. Do you want them to be trained, or not?

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcript of BNI Podcast Episode 214 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkeley, CA. I am joined on the phone today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. Hello Ivan, how are you and where are you today?

Ivan:
I am up in Big Bear. I have talked about Big Bear in my podcasts before. I have a house up in the mountains. I have my Executive Management Teamof BNI, the top managers of the organization globally. We have managers from Europe, Asia and of course North America. We are meeting to talk about strategies and how to take BNI yet to the next level. We are also meeting this week with the Executive Council, which is the National Directors of the top seven countries of BNI. We get together a couple of times a year to make sure everybody is on the same page and we take this organization into the next century as effectively as possible.

Priscilla:
That’s great.

Ivan:
We really work hard to get an engagement of the organization at many, many levels. This week is all about engaging some of the key players of the organization.

Priscilla:
It’s such a big organization now. It seems like you really do need to do this.

Ivan:
Yeah. 6000 groups now in almost 50 countries.

Priscilla:
Wow. That’s impressive. Well, what are you going to share with us?

Ivan:
You know, I got a question that was sent to me that I just had to answer. I looked through my podcasts to see if I had ever really answered this. I don’t think I ever have, not this directly. The member said, “ BNI requires that all of the committee leaders and officers attend leadership training, which is generally offered one month a year. I suggest that committee members not be required to attend leadership team training so that we can allow people who are willing to serve be able to participate without having to go to that [pesky] training.” Okay, he didn’t say pesky. I added that. But so that they could widen the pool of future candidates.

This is one of those things. First of all I appreciate the question. This is one of those things that sound good, but when you really go deep and start understanding the ramifications of it, you kind of scratch your head and go, “Gee. I didn’t think about that.” I’m really glad and I guarantee you that if he is asking that question, there are a whole lot of people thinking that. So I appreciate the question and here’s the answer:

First, I discovered years ago what I call the leaky bucket process of training. I think I may have talked about this in a podcast in the past. When I started BNI, we didn’t have required training every six months for the leadership teams. I trained leadership teams and I asked those leadership team people to train the next generation and that leadership team group to train the next generation and this where I discovered the leaky bucket theory of education. Education and information- there is a bucket of knowledge. When I train you, some of that knowledge leaks out. If you then train a third party, even more information leaks out. By the time that third party is training someone else, you have a lot of information leak out of the bucket. Now, what happens when somebody is handed a bucket that is half full? They start putting in their own stuff.

What we discovered after a year in BNI is the leadership teams that were trained that way were horrible because they were ill prepared. It made me think back to my days when I worked in a transportation company in Los Angeles. On my first day on the job, the HR Director brought me in and said, “Well, the boss is out of town. He was called away for a state government hearing. He’ll be gone for a few days. We’re not quite sure what your job is. It’s a new position, so we’ll show you around. The restroom is down the hall. Here is your office. Dial 9 to get out. We’re not really sure what you do. Good luck. Your boss will be here in a few days. “

I sat there and I thought, you know, if I ever run a business of my own, I will make sure that people get a thorough orientation so they are not going to have to wing it. Training isn’t about widening the pool. It’s about deepening the knowledge. What is more important than having a lot of candidates is having participants who are informed and oriented. It is that training that is key.

I had somebody say to me once, I thought this was a great metaphor. Would you like to have a pilot flying your plane that you are in that did not complete training? Clearly not. Nobody does. He said to me, “For those people who complain, what I tell them is your leadership team members are the pilots of your chapter. They are flying your chapter. Do you want people flying your chapter who haven’t had an orientation, who haven’t been trained?” I said that is a great metaphor. That really is.

You want people who are knowledgeable and understand what is going on and why it is done a certain way and what part of the training is the hidden elements, and understanding these key aspects of being successful in a group. So we are not looking to widen the pool. We are looking for committed people who are willing to get the orientation necessary so that they can pilot the individual chapters in the most effective way. We do that because we have done it the other way where training wasn’t required.

I remember going into a group once and not believing that we were in a BNI meeting because it did not look anything like a BNI meeting except they were wearing BNI badges and did call me the founder. Other than that, it didn’t look anything like a BNI meeting. One of the reasons for that was we didn’t train back then. It was a huge mistake.

Great question and that’s the reason we do it. What are your thoughts?

Priscilla:
I am glad you asked because I have been in BNI for seven years, maybe it’s more than seven years now. I’ve been on the leadership team just about the whole time. We go almost every six months, so I’ve been to almost 14 leadership trainings. What I have discovered is that there are some things that, of course get repeated, unless you do different jobs every time. What’s interesting about it is because BNI is evolving as an organization and because it’s international and all kinds of other reasons, you keep developing and toning it and making it a little better each time. So that is an opportunity. For our regional directors to teach is what is new and get us all going in the same direction, swimming with the current, so to speak.

Ivan:
I think so. That is really important to be checking in and updating. There are changes to the organization and you need to know and gt those updates. It’s like watching a movie for the second or third time. You pick up stuff you didn’t pick up before. New things happen. These are all really important.

Here is an aspect that I think is really critical, especially from a givers gain perspective. If you have a great level of expertise because you have been on the leadership team two or three times or more, go to the leadership team training to help your director support the leadership process. Volunteer for your director. Say to them, “You know what, this is my 4th or 5th time. If you would like to call on me to support something, please feel free to do so.” Oftentimes, new leadership team people do not take the advice of the director. Yet the director has tons of experience. But hearing the same thing from another member will give them a different perspective.

Look at it from the perspective of supporting the entire team. BNI is a team effort. It’s not an individual sport. It’s a team. So go there to support the team, the director and your fellow leadership team members who are there. Guess what- you are probably going to pick up a few things along the way as well. Go deep, not wide. That is what training is about. Thanks, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
Great. Thank you, Ivan. I think that’s it for this week. I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thank you so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice and we hope you will join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

Tom Fleming, Executive Director for West Central Florida, joins Dr. Misner for a second time (the first time was in Episode 168) to talk about how to get an average membership of 39.2 in his forty-chapter region.

It’s called the Double Triple Effect because doubling the number of members can triple the number of referrals. Here’s how to make it work.

• Start with a vision of what you want.
• Run the chapter like a business.
• Have goals and mechanisms.
• Put systems in writing and follow them.
• Celebrate successes.

Interested in how to run a 60-member BNI chapter? Leave a comment here, and if enough people are interested, we’ll bring Tom back a third time.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 177 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I am Priscilla Rice, and I am coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, CA. I am joined today by the Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner.  Hello Ivan. How are you and who do you have with us?

Ivan:I am doing great, Priscilla. Thank you very much. I have with us a gentleman who I am going to introduce in just a moment, Tom Fleming. Tom, I believe, is the only guest I have ever had on the podcast twice so far. So congratulations to Tom for that.

Tom has been a member of BNI- he joined in 1996 as a member. In 2003, he became the Executive director and is now the Executive Director in Tampa and West Central Florida. 13 of his 40 chapters in that region have more than 45 members. He has an average member size, with 40 chapters, of 39.2 members per chapter. His largest chapter is 70 members with a number of chapters in the 60′S. That is just amazing to me. That has absolutely created a new paradigm in my mind as to what is possible. I just want to welcome Tom to the podcast and turn it over to him. Tell me, Tom, how in the worlddo you get an average member size of 39.2? What is your secret?

Tom:
Thank you first and foremost, for having me back on again, Ivan. I think the secret is really creating the intention that we want to maximize members’ value and have the value of their seats be worth the most amount of money possible. That is why the title of this podcast is called “The Double Triple Effect.” I think we are all familiar with the concept that when you double the size of the chapter, you triple the amount of  referrals.

Ivan:
Right. So where do you begin?

Tom:
I think you begin with vision. A leadership team begins with vision. Whether you are a part of a startup chapter or an existing chapter, you have to ask yourself where do we want to go, first and foremost. We want the average revenue per seat to be worth in the chapter? How tmany referrals do we need to be passing to hit those members? It’s  not about just having a number of chapters. It’s about having a productive chapter. You’re just not going to be a three million dollar or four million  dollar chapter per year with unproductive members, if that makes sense.

Ivan:
Good point. So you begin with the very end in mind.

Tom:
Absolutely. I  think the balance of the secret, in terms of increasing the number of members to take advantage of the double triple effect has to do with the leadership teams- how they manage the chapters, with the directors supporting their efforts. In fact, one of the first things the leadership team needs to embrace is what to we want the culture of this chapter to be? Do we want it to be a business culture or a club culture? Obviously, if it is run like a business, everyone is going to make money, but if it’s run like a club, they are going to make friends.

Ivan:
Good point. I have often said that one of the strengths of a good BNI chapter is that many of the members are friends, and one of the weaknesses of a good BNI chapter is many of the members are friends. It’s both a strength and a weakness.

Tom:
It does present a challenge, but I think in order to take advantage of being the money making machine that any BNI chapter can be, it needs to embrace a culture of business. From there, it is basically a matter of implementation of different Management 101 principles, in terms of executing that vision.

Ivan:
So give me some examples.

Tom:
I think any successful business has a set of goals and a set of mechanisms or strategies that support the business heading towards those goals. Therefore, I think chapters need to have goals and mechanisms.

Ivan:
Right. You hit what you aim at, don’t you?

Tom:
Absolutely. I like to say what gets measured gets done. From there, once we set goals and strategies to make those things happen, I think businesses do an effective job of tracking and communicating the results. So many organizations go through this goal setting exercise and say to themselves, phew, glad that’s over with! Then they set the documentation aside, never to be looked at again.

Ivan:
Right. So what else?

Tom:
One of the things that we do in terms of maximizing the average chapter size in pursuit of making the most money possible-  we then need to keep that documentation alive. Presidents and vice presidents jump on it three times during their weekly call with directors so that, really, the conversation can be centered around what are your goals? Where are you headed? Really the focus of that  conversation is do we have our mechanisms in place now, over the next few months, so that we hit our intended goals.

Ivan:
What do you mean by mechanisms?

Tom:
Strategies. Are we going to have a BNI game put in place over the next few months? Are we going to do a visitor’s day? Are we going to have a  bring your substitute day? Those sort of strategies might stimulate either attendance, one-to-ones, referrals, or thank yous for closed business.

Ivan:
All the things you mentioned we have systems for in writing that they can follow. I think sometimes people follow the program that we’ve got, but sometimes do a “visitor’s day lite” without really  following the system. What you are talking about is really following the the program that we have and  implementing it fully as opposed to just kind of winging it.

Tom:
Flawless execution is the secret to success.  I often analogize BNI with baking a cake. When the recipe says one and a half cups of flour and two cups of sugar,or whatever, you can’t change that or you are not going to get the desired results. It is the same way with BNI.

Ivan:
That is a great analogy. What else?

Tom:
The other thing, one of the last key components that we do in terms of the members making more money and the chapter succeeding in growth, is we celebrate our successes.  How we do this is we bring our presidents, vice presidents, and directors from 8-12 chapters together on a monthly basis. Literally, the chapters share successes. “Wow. Look at the one-to-ones per member that your chapter is doing. How did you do it? Look at the closed business per member your chapter is doing.” Literally, we have chapters here where the average revenue per seat per year per member is in the $50,000 range. There was one chapter that did $65,000 per member last year.

Ivan:
Wow. That is amazing.

Tom:
As we pointed out earlier, it’s not just about quantity. It’s about quality. How do we train the members to be passing out referrals? How do we inspire them to  engage in the relationship development process, do one-to-ones, build that trusting?

Ivan:
The idea of a large group in and of itself is not critical. It’s the large group that is high quality. That is what is critical. I get members who say to me all the time, “50 members? I don’t want 50 members because they are not all good and it’s going to take up time.” The idea is to be good at screening the members. If you have 50, 60 or 70 great members, you are going  to be passing a ton of referrals. What are some of the high numbers? You are talking about millions of dollars a chapter that they are generating?

Tom:
Absolutely. We have chapters that are doing 2.8, 3 million, 3.1 million dollars per year. I don’t think a chapter needs to be 50 members in order for the average value per seat to be $50,000 – $60,000 per year, but I do truly believe that under the auspices of the double triple effect, that it increases the likelihood of a chapter doing those numbers per member when you are up at the 40, 50 or 60 member range because the referral  opportunities are exponential then.

Ivan:
Absolutely. We have seen that from day one, that when a chapter doubles its  size, it triples its referrals. It’s a common characteristic of the successful group. We are almost out of time. Priscilla, did you have a question?

Priscilla:
Yeah. When you say that you have each member receiving $40,000 or $50,000 per seat, does that include the members that are harder to refer? I know that, for example in our chapter, the construction contractor has really high numbers, so it skews the average- and the lawyers.

Ivan:
I am sure I can answer that. Tell me if I’m wrong. When you are talking about an average, it’s just that. It’s an average, which means especially if you are talking about the mean.  About half, roughly, of the people are going to be  doing more than that and half are going to be doing less than that. Nobody is doing that. It’s all more or less, but the statistical mean averages out at that number. Would you agree, Tom? Some are way over that and some are under that.

Tom:
Absolutely. As an executive director, I have trouble managing down to each individual member in a 1,600 member region. I need to find some way to measure success, and I have chosen average revenue per seat member per year.

Ivan:
Certainly from a chapter perspective, it gives you a real sense of the health of the chapter. If you have one chapter doing $10,000 per member, you can clearly see that they are struggling. If you have a chapter running $40,000 to $50,000 per member, that is huge, way on the high end of what we see.

Tom:
At BNI, our intention is to maximize the value of a member’s membership. Happy members don’t leave. If you have someone in the chapter who is making $30,000, $60,000 or $90,000 per year, I would think that they wouldn’t be leaving the chapter anytime soon.

Ivan:
Absolutely. Any closing comments before we wrap up?

Tom:
I think my closing comment goes back to something that we talked about earlier, and that is the power of following the recipe. I think whether as a member or a leadership team member that learns part of a success system out of BNI and then they can apply that to their own business, I think that is part of the value of BNI.

As I have talked to members who are seasoned in the system and asked them, what have you gotten out of BNI? They always share with me that the referrals and the increased revenue has been great, but the communication,  the leadership, the management skills, the personal development they have picked up and applied to their own company, those are the things that are so valuable. If people are following this system, embracing it, for five, 10, 15 years, as I have here, I don’t know  how they could go wrong, to be honest with you.

Ivan:
Tom, you and your region are a real inspiration to the organization. I appreciate what you do, and please pass on my congratulations to your groups for really being, I think, a standout region for this organization. I greatly appreciate it. I know that when chapters get to 40, 50, 60 members, that it’s very difficult to get the meetings over on time.

Priscilla, you wanted at one point for us to talk about what do you do when you get groups that size? I was thinking- you suggested before we started recording, Tom, that if our members are interested in that topic, to leave a message up on the podcast to say, “Hey, I’d like to know. How do you run a 50-member chapter? How do you squeeze it in?”

 If you are listening to this podcast and you want to do the types of things that Tom is talking about, but you want to know how to squeeze it in, leave a message on this podcast. Type us a message. If we get enough people saying they’d like to know, we’ll bring you back a third time, Tom, and we’ll have another conversation about how you run the meetings when there are that many members.

Tom:
It’s a true honor. I thank you, and thank you for your leadership.

Ivan:
Thanks Tom. I appreciate that. Priscilla, great question. I’ll turn it back over to you.

Priscilla:
Okay. Great. Thank you, Tom. I personally am looking forward to hearing that particular topic discussed. I think that’s it for this week. I’d just like to thank  both of you and remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. Thanks so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you’ll join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

Today’s episode is inspired by a letter Dr. Misner got from the vice-president of a struggling BNI chapter who wanted to know how to keep the long-term goal of building the chapter in mind when facing personal attacks from members?

Dr. Misner’s response was to refer this VP back to an article he wrote in SuccessNet in 2006, called “Addition by Subtraction.” The chapter in that story was facing a problem with absenteeism.

In the article, Ivan and Beth Misner take turns explaining that the way to grow healthy rose bushes is to prune them back—and the way to grow a healthy BNI chapter is to get rid of the members who don’t show up or don’t participate. BNI thrives on accountability.

This episode is brought to you by our new sponsor, Ask Ivan Misner.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 143 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by AskIvanMisner.com, which is a new Web site where you can ask any question you have about networking.

I’m Priscilla Rice, and I’m coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, California, and I’m joined on the phone today by the founder and the chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner.

Hello, Ivan. How are you and where are you?

Ivan:
I’m doing great, Priscilla. This week I’m an BNI headquarters doing leadership team training – or I should say director training. We bring in directors from all over the world several times a year and do about three full days of training. And then after the training, we bring them over to my house for dinner, and that’s what we just did last night. It’s all about education, and that’s why we do these podcasts, trying to teach people how to do this effectively, and we make sure that our directors get really good training with a 700-800 page manual and go through the whole program.

Priscilla:
Wow! That’s impressive. So what are you going to share with us?

Ivan:
I’ve got a fun topic today, an interesting topic. Maybe “fun” is the wrong word; I like it, but it is really based on a letter I received from somebody. The topic is Addition by Subtraction. And I’m talking about this today because I received a letter – actually an e-mail from a BNI member who’s a vice president, and he talks about his frustration and the burnout relating to rebuilding his chapter. And he said they are, for the first time, following the rules and guidelines for BNI, and he really feels like he is hitting a wall.

He’s the VP, and the VP gets all the dirty work; he recognizes that in his e-mail. And he said he has a tough problem, how do you keep the long term goal in mind of building the chapter while there are so many attacks personally. He said, “I’ve been called a tyrant by a member of my chapter who was late nine times and had missed several meetings.” And he had a conversation with the guy, and he didn’t take it well and called the VP, the poor VP a tyrant.

So this really is for members everywhere but particularly for you, VP, who sent me this letter. I hope you listen to this podcast because I want to share some information that’s really based on an article I wrote a few years back called Addition by Subtraction. And if you’re listening to this podcast and you want to see the original article, go to BNISuccessNet.com, BNISuccessNet.com. Do a search on “Addition by Subtraction,” and you’ll get this article. We’ll also try to put a link to this article on the podcast so you can go directly to it.

But here’s basically how the article goes, and this is my answer to the VP, how do you handle people that get this upset because you’re doing the right thing, you’re trying to turn the chapter around. So to him, I would say, “Have faith.” The best way to build the chapter, you want to add to your chapter is to subtract from your chapter. And I say that because this article that I wrote, and it’s done as a “he said/she said” article. I write a little bit, and then my wife writes a little bit. And I talk about the fact that I was in a local chapter and I asked how things were going, and she said, “Great. We’re up to 35 members, but only 25 are coming every week.”

I was like, “Whoa, wait a minute. That’s not great. If 25% of your membership is missing, that’s not good at all.”

Then we had my wife talk a little bit, and she talks about gardening. Big transition, but she talks about gardening and how, if you really want – we’ve got like 75 rose bushes at my house. If you really want the rose bushes to grow, you have to prune them back. You have to cut the rose bushes back in order for them to bloom.

Priscilla:
Right.

Ivan:
And that’s what the whole article is about, is talking about the fact that if you want a chapter to grow, sometimes you have to prune the chapter, and people aren’t going to be happy about that. “Oh, my goodness! You actually have expectations of them? They actually have to show up on time? They can’t miss meetings?”

Look, this is a business organization. It’s okay to have rules and regulations that help raise the bar and the quality of participation. BNI is not for everybody; I get that; it’s okay. We want people who are committed, and the truth is this vice president is doing the right things by focusing on accountability. And Priscilla, we’ve talked about this in a lot of podcasts.

One of the strengths of BNI is that all the members, or many of the members, are friends. One of the weaknesses of BNI is that many of the members are friends.

Priscilla:
Right.

Ivan:
It is both a strength and a weakness. And the truth is, if your chapter is struggling and hasn’t been following the program, the best way to turn it around is to prune it back, to let everybody know that we’re going to start following the program again, get everybody on board. And those people who aren’t willing to do what everybody else is willing to do, it might not be the right group for them. And so he’s doing the right things by starting to focus on absences and tardies.

The one part of this article that I end that I think is really important is a study that I did many years ago with two chapters, and it started because this one chapter had 14 members. And they came to me and they said, “Attendance is nonsense.” It’s what they said to me, Priscilla. “Attendance is nonsense. Whether people show up or not is not going to make a difference in the amount of referrals, and we’re going to prove it to you.”

I said, “Okay.”

“We’re going to start following the attendance policy, and we’re going to track it and we’re going to show you that it doesn’t make a difference.”

I said, “Okay. That’s fair. If you show me it doesn’t make a difference, I’ll stop bothering you about attendance.”

Originally, this was published in 1994, and it was republished in this article.

So they had an average of 2.1 absences per member per quarter. That’s a lot of absences. Fourteen members and they were passing 188 referrals a quarter. Once they started focusing on absenteeism, they dropped absenteeism down by 52 percent, so it want to one absence per member per quarter. Their number of members went up 29 percent, and their number of referrals went up 43 percent to 269 referrals.

They did it in another quarter, absenteeism dropped to .6, .6 absences per member. The number of members jumped up to 21 percent, a 50 percent jump in membership, and referrals went up 62 percent to 305 referrals. A 71 percent drop in absenteeism, a 62 percent increase in referrals. That is a direct correlation.

Here’s the funny part of the story. The chapter came up to me when we originally published that back in 1994 in a printed version of SuccessNet, and they said, “We don’t believe these numbers.” Oh, by the way, the [original] chapter started following the attendance policy all the time. They said, “Never mind. It is correct.” And so they followed the program.

I had another chapter come to me and said, “We don’t believe these numbers.”

I said, “Why?”

He said, “These guys are in your pocket. They’ll just do whatever you say.”

“They’re an independent chapter. They did this on their own.”

He didn’t believe me. He said they wanted to do it, but they wanted to do it one month longer – or one quarter longer; they wanted to do it for three quarters instead of two quarters.

I said, “Sure, fine.”

And he said, “You have to publish our results, because I don’t believe it’ll make a difference over a nine month period.”

So I said, “I promise I’ll publish the results.”

He was right, it didn’t – he said, “I don’t believe that they’ll be the same.” And he was right; they weren’t the same. They had a 53 percent drop in absentees and a 164 percent increase in referrals.

Priscilla:
Wow!

Ivan:
A 90 percent increase in membership.

Priscilla:
Wow!

Ivan:
And all they did was follow the attendance policy. And that’s not all. They also focused on the visitor host and they did a few other things right, but they just focused on following the program.

So to every chapter out there that’s made the decision, the tough decision to follow the system, go read this article because it shows that there’s a direct correlation between attendance and referrals. 53 percent drop in absenteeism led to a 164 percent increase in referrals over a nine month period.

That, vice president who wrote me the e-mail, that’s the reason why you are doing the right thing by focusing on the fundamentals in your group. Keep it up. Don’t let it bother you that people are resistant to the change, because they will be. People don’t like change, but this is good change. And it will make a difference for your chapter.

And that’s my message for today, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
It’s a good message. I just have a question as to why he had to take all the heat and why it wasn’t just a leadership team decision.

Ivan:
That’s a good question, and the truth is, the VP is the one who usually does take the heat because they’re the spokesperson for the membership committee; they’re the chair of the membership committee. But I think it would be good if an entire chapter, if the leadership team can get behind the vice president, it makes it a little bit easier. The worst thing a leadership team can do, and he did not say that his group was doing this, but the worst thing they could do would be to say, “Hey, look, it’s not my responsibility; it’s the VP doing this,” to wash their hands of it.

What they really need to do is to say, “We support this. This is in the chapter’s best interest. Go read that article, Addition by Subtraction. You’ll see why it’s important to do this. And so if you get a leadership team who is supporting the VP, you’re going to have less of this. But there’s always going to be – the person who brings the bad tidings is the person that’s going to get most of the anxiety from the chapter.

So I understand. Just hang in there. You’re doing the right thing, and I promise you, if you continue to do it and you do it in a tactful way, don’t be a fascist about it, be polite, be professional, but be tough, tough love. And you will absolutely build your chapter.

I urge people listening to the podcast, go read that article, Addition by Subtraction. It was written by my wife and I a few years ago. We’ll include the link here.

Thanks, Priscilla.

Priscilla:
You’re so welcome. And, Ivan, I was wondering if you could tell the listeners a little bit about our new sponsor.

Ivan:
You know, we do have a new sponsor, AskIvanMisner.com. This is a Web site that was developed by Alex Mandossian. He is like the world’s expert on Ask Web sites, and Alex has put this site together, and we’re working with him on it. Just think about any question you have about business networking, go to that Web site, and type in your question. It’s free! When you type in your question, you’ll get a link that will tell you when to the phone call is. You may go and listen to the phone call live for free, no cost. If you want a recorded copy of the phone call, it’s $15 or less for the recorded copy of it, but free, listen to the telebridge for free live. And it’s once a month – at this point, it’s once a month. That may change over time.

But go to AskIvanMisner.com, throw a question at us. It can be either about BNI or about networking in general. This is not just a BNI Web site; it’s a networking Web site. Go check it out, see what you think.

Priscilla:
Great! Okay, then.

Well, listeners, I’d like to remind you that this podcast has been brought to you by AskIvanMisner.com, new Web site where you can ask any question you have about networking. Thanks so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you’ll join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

The national directors of BNI in the UK and Ireland surveyed 4785 members and came up with some great information.

• 44% of BNI members had been in their business for more than 5 years. 70% had been in business for more than 2 years. (Most businesses fail within their first 3 years.)
• 25% of BNI members are one-person-businesses; 54% have 2-10 employees; 22% represent companies of up to 50 employees. 75% of our members have employees who work for their companies.
• 89.3% of the members felt that camaraderie was important to their participation in BNI, and 90.3% were satisfied or extremely satisfied in this area.
• Based on the survey, 15% received more than £25,000 (US $34,000) in business in the last 12 months, and of those 6% received £50,0000 or $69,000, and 80% received at least £2000 in business just from BNI.
• 86% of all BNI members were likely to renew their membership. In actual fact, about 20% don’t renew because of factors beyond their control, so the average renewal rate is about 60%.
• 70% of the people who do not renew made less than £2000 in referral business. This shouldn’t be a shock, but it’s powerful evidence that the amount of business you generate affects your attitude about BNI.

You can read more details in SuccessNet Online, including the graphs that go with the statistics.

Brought to you by Networking Now.

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 102 -

Priscilla:
Hello everyone, and welcome back to The Official BNI Podcast brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables.

I’m Priscilla Rice, and I’m coming to you from Live Oak Recording Studio in Berkley, California, and I am joined on the phone today by the founder and the chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner.

Hello, Ivan. How are you, and where are you?

Ivan:
I’m doing great. This week I’m at the U.S. BNI Conference in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We’re expecting a great turnout of members, and we have a fantastic turnout of directors. This week I’m at the conference in Milwaukee.

Priscilla:
Well, that sounds good.

Ivan:
The topic this week is an unusual title, And the Survey Says. You made me say it twice because it was like, “What is the title?” Well, the reason for that is there is a game show that has been on for many, many years, and it plays around the world, Family Feud, and the host always says, “And the survey says.” And then you listen for what people have to say about the survey.

This is based on a survey that was done on BNI, and I thought that I would like to talk about this topic on this podcast because there’s some great content that came out of this survey. And I want to thank the national directors for the United Kingdom for having put this together as a wonderful survey. There was about 4,785 BNI members that were part of this survey in the U.K. and Ireland, and some really interesting results were discovered.

The first topic relates to the length of time members have been in business. From previous studies, which I quoted in my book, Truth or Delusion, Busting Networking Biggest Myths, we knew that BNI have a substantial number of mature and successful businesses in it. But this study further supports those findings. Based on one of the questions, they found that 44 percent of BNI members in the study had been in business for more than five years, 44 percent of BNI members had been in their business for more than five years. And a whopping combined total of 70 percent were in business for more than two years; 70 percent of BNI members, based on this study, were in for more than two years.

Most businesses fail within their first three years. That holds true worldwide, and yet, we see a large percentage of our members having been in business for more than two, and many more than five years, which is a real testament to the fact that we have matured, seasoned, successful business professionals in here. Only 15 percent of our membership has been in business for less than one year. That’s really critical. Only 15 percent of our membership, based on this study, have been in business less than one year.

So this really, truly puts to rest the myth that BNI is made up mostly of new businesses. These results dramatically show that BNI is made up of members who beat most of the national averages for length of time in business.

Second question that I wanted to talk about is the average size of the business that’s represented in BNI. This topic covered in the survey really was asking how many employees work for the company, and the results in this area closely track previous results from the St. Thomas University study that was conducted a number of years ago about BNI. The current survey showed that 25 percent of the membership was a one person operation and that 54 percent had between two and ten employees and that another 22 percent of BNI members represented companies of up to 50 employees with 6 percent being over 50 employees. So again, BNI is not made up of just “Mom and Pop” operations. 75 percent of our organization has employees who work for the company, and as much as almost 30 percent have more than 11 people and over 50 employees working for the company.

The next question that was in the survey, at least that I’m covering today – the survey was much more comprehensive, but I only have time for a handful of the questions – that was the importance of comradery. That shouldn’t be a particular surprise. Comradery, or friendship, based on the survey, 89.3 percent of the members felt that this factor was important to extremely important in their participation. I was really pleased to see that 90.3 percent were satisfied or extremely satisfied with the results in this area. Relationships are clearly an important factor in the organization, that’s not a surprise, and that part of it is absolutely working in the organization.

Now we get into probably some of the most important topics, and that’s the value of BNI members’ businesses. What’s the value of the business that’s generated in BNI. It’s probably the more important topic, and it’s very interesting. Based on the survey, 15 percent of the respondents received over 25,000 pounds sterling, remember this was done in the U.K. and Ireland, which is equal today to about $34,000 U.S., so about 15 percent made over $34,000 U.S. with 6 percent of that number receiving over 50,000 pounds sterling, or $69,000 U.S. in business for the last 12 months.

About 23 percent of the members generated between 10,000 and 25,000 pounds sterling, which is the equivalent of roughly $14,000 to $34,000 U.S. So it’s 23 percent got between roughly $14,000 and $34,000 U.S.

21 percent stated that they had received between 5,000 and 10,000 pounds sterling, or approximately $7,000 to $14,000 U.S. And another 21 percent generated over 2,000 to 5,000 pounds sterling, or roughly $3,000 to $7,000 U.S.

A total of 80 percent of all the members surveyed received more than 2,000 pounds sterling in business, or more than $3,000 U.S. in revenue. So for a few hundred dollars in membership, virtually everyone had received at least, at least $3,000 U.S. in business, and some, much, much more, some as much as $69,000 or more in business.

Now, this is really important when it’s cross tabulated against another factor that we’re going to look at in just a moment. Let’s talk about membership renewal trends. The question about renewal was one that was very interesting. Based on the survey results, 86 percent of all BNI members were likely to renew their membership; 86 percent said they were likely to renew their membership. However, what we know from previous studies conducted in the United States, as much as 20 percent of our members don’t renew membership for reasons that are beyond our control. For example, they’re promoted, they move, they’re ill, they change jobs.

So if you reduce the 86 percent of members who absolutely plan on renewing their membership by the 20 percent that don’t for reasons that are beyond their control and our control, that leaves roughly 66 percent renewal rate in an average BNI group. That’s an important number because even if 86 percent of your members are happy, which is a great number, you’re still going to have roughly 20 percent not renew because of variables beyond the control of their chapter. When you add to that, surprises, issues, or people who change their mind, it’s not uncommon to see about a 60 percent renewal rate in a chapter.

So consider this when planning chapter growth, that even if 86 percent of your members say they’re going renew, you know that at least 20 won’t because of factors that are beyond our control, illness, promotion, moving, those kinds of things.

All right. So here’s that last topic that I want to touch upon. It’s a real important one. And that’s the characteristics of people who do not renew. This is so important, and it’s the most important part of this podcast. If you take the 14 percent of the people who are not going to renew, likely not to renew, you discover that 70 percent of them made less than $3,000 in business. This means that if we can help – and this is the really important part of this podcast. If we can help struggling members in the referral process generate more referrals, it is likely that we can reduce the number of members who feel that it’s unlikely that they’re going to renew their membership.

This study that was conducted shows that people who are not planning on renewing rank towards the bottom in the amount of revenue earned during their participation. Now this shouldn’t be a shock to anybody, but it’s powerful evidence that the amount of business that people generate is going to determine whether they stay in the group. Chapters that begin working with low earning members six months before their renewal date might, in fact, make an impact relating to this segment of the membership. So if our leadership teams do nothing else with these findings when you’re listening to this podcast – talk to your chapter members and your leadership teams. If they do nothing else with these findings, focusing on the members who are not generating 2,000 in pounds sterling business or more is an important factor in increasing in the renewals of your chapter members.

For those of you listening to the podcast, this was an article that you can find in SuccessNetOnline. You can find this article in SuccessNetOnline. It was published in April on 2009, and the title is And the Survey Says, and you can see the graphs that go with the topics that I’ve been talking about here.

So that’s the content that I wanted to talk about today.

Priscilla, any thoughts on what I just described?

Priscilla:
I think it’s very interesting, and I’m hoping you will do a podcast on how to help those members that are not being able to earn the income that they would like to.

Ivan:
Well, that’s a great topic, and yeah, let me put together some material, and we’ll cover that in a future podcast. Because clearly, it’s a way that dramatically can impact those individuals. When 70 percent of the people who say they’re not going to renew are making less than $3,000 in referrals in a BNI chapter, then clearly, there’s a statistical significance there. And if we could just affect those people, we’re going to have, right off the top, 10 percent of our members renewing that weren’t renewing before. I think that’s a powerful thing to know.

Priscilla:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you, Dr. Misner. That was a very interesting topic, and I like that survey.

I would just like to remind the listeners that this podcast has been brought to you by NetworkingNow.com, which is the leading site on the Net for networking downloadables. Thanks so much for listening. This is Priscilla Rice, and we hope you’ll join us next week for another exciting episode of The Official BNI Podcast.

Patti Has Built Over 100 Chapters With An Average Of 27 Members Each

Use The Practice of “Focused Inviting”

Only Invite People Who You Know Are The Best At What They Do

Ask Them To Do The Same In Turn

The Less You Say, The More People Will Participate

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 027 -

Frank Felker:
Hello everybody and welcome back to the official BNI podcast, brought to you by networkingnow.com, the leading site on the net for networking downloadables. I’m Frank Felker in Washington DC joined on the phone today by Dr. Ivan Misner who’s calling in from the crescent city, New Orleans, Louisiana. What are you doing down that way, Ivan?

Ivan Misner:
We had our membership drive earlier this year and this is the U.S. membership drive weekend. We’re having a wonderful in New Orleans this weekend.

Frank:
It’s one of my favorite cities. I’ve always enjoyed going there. I understand you also have a guest on the line with us today.

Ivan:
I do. I have with us Patti Salvucci. I have known Patti for more than a decade. She is one of the best BNI directors in the world and that’s why I have invited her to be on this podcast. Patti has under her management 100 chapters of BNI. That’s amazing to me and as if that isn’t amazing enough, she has one of the largest average number of members per chapter regions in the world with approximately 27 members on average – that’s a statistical mean – 27 members per chapter, which is just phenomenal. Patti, it is great to have you on this podcast.

Patti Salvucci:
Thank you, Ivan. Great to be here.

Ivan:
Talk a little bit about how you got started. I think the podcast is a great opportunity for people to talk directly to members and give them some of the dos and don’ts of being successful in BNI.

We’re going to talk about how you built chapters. Clearly, you have been brilliant at building strong groups. That is really the topic for today. You have had a lot of success in BNI in this area so I thought that you might start off by talking about some of our original conversations when we opened up in Massachusetts. I worked with you by phone before we actually kicked off. I thought maybe we could start with that.

Patti:
Actually, it was back in 1985, and I think BNI only had about 300 chapters at that point. Ivan was my coach and one of the things that really struck for me was that Ivan said that you want to only invite people that you would recommend in a heartbeat. It would be somebody who returns phone calls and you would be proud to recommend.

I had a lot of friends and business but I thought you know what – there were only eight that I could think of that were really the best at what they did. I really wanted a lot of people there, so I started to think how was I going to get 100 people to attend a meeting?

I went to some people that were in the community that were very influential. One was the director of the civic organization and I call that person and said, “Joan, I need your help. Will you help me?”

She said she would be more than happy to. I said we were having a networking breakfast in town and I was looking for people who were the best at what they do. I think that was the key. It really made her think. I think one of the keys is focused inviting.

When I actually went to see Joan the following day, she had pulled out only the people that she thought were the best at what they did. Interestingly enough, when I called those people I didn’t have to know them. I called and said, “My name is Patti. You don’t know me but you are highly recommended by Joan.”

Ivan:
You say you didn’t have to know them, but she knew them and that was the key. It was the third party connection that made that approach work for you. Is that correct?

Patti:
Actually, the rapport had already started to be built in the conversation. I think saying less is more. I only said just a few sentences on the phone and I asked for permission to be able to send them an invitation to a networking breakfast were everybody in town was going to be there. We were only looking for the people who are the best at what they did and Jones said that they were the best.

Ivan:
Saying less is more. I think that’s so important because sometimes members just try to talk someone into joining and try to give them almost too much information. The truth is that the best way to get people to participate in BNI is to see a well run meeting.

I can bring up to really good points. One is that members have a tendency to invite anyone with a pulse and not go for the best. The second is that they try to explain everything without the person seeing it. Would you not agree with that?

Patti:
I absolutely agree with that. I think that they try to think about everything they possibly can in order to invite them and give them as much information as they need. At that point, the person doesn’t need to go to the meeting. I think you just want to put out the bread crumbs, so to speak. Just give them a little bit of information so that they always want more. That is something that certainly always worked for me.

Ivan:
Talk a little bit more about why you think less is more. Do you have any other observations on why that is better than trying to give all the information? For example, a lot of the members will not only give all the information that have, but they will hand over fliers and materials. For some reason members think that by handing a lot of materials, people are going to join. My experience is that nobody joins from a brochure. They join because they experience the meeting and they like the people there.

Patti:
I totally agree, Ivan. I think actually when I started, we didn’t have brochures. We had the book of The World’s Best Known Marketing Secrets. You absolutely need to come and see the professionals that are involved in this organization. I think if they are not willing to do that, they’re probably not a good BNI prospect. It’s important to tell them just a little bit. We’re looking for somebody who is the best at what they do, and we have twenty people who are looking to give business to a plumber. Are you interested? Would you be interested in attending.?

Ivan:
And those should be either people that you know or people who have been referred to you by somebody you really trust which is the way that you did it.

Patti:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I didn’t know the person after I had exhausted the referrals that Joan had given me. I thought who else in the community is influential? I thought of a director of a YMCA. I didn’t actually know this person, but I did know somebody who was in the rotary with this gentleman for fifteen years.

I called her and said, “Can I use your name when I call him?” And she said absolutely. I called him and I said, “You don’t know me but you are highly recommended by Jackie Brighton.”

He said, “I’ve known her for fifteen years. How can I help you?”

It was wonderful. I went through the same exact script that I had when I called the director of the civic organization. And he referred me to many people.

Ivan:
That goes along with the phrase that you use a lot in our conversations about this podcast. That is it’s not who you know but who you meet through who you know. Talk more about that.

Patti:
Well, I just think that sometimes members get stuck on thinking that they’ve already invited everybody that they know. That’s not true because there are so many other people that you truly have not met yet that are good connections for you by the contacts that you already have.

Even if you are looking for a great landscaper and you don’t know one, think of who you know in town who has the best lawn. Pick up the phone and call them. And just say who cuts your lawn? Call the person and say that they were highly recommended by so and so.

Ivan:
That’s kind of an example of thinking out of the box. Any other examples of that concept of thinking outside the box?

Patti:
One time, a chapter was having a really difficult time finding people because they said that their town was different. I thought well I don’t know anybody in your town. But I m more than happy to try something out.

We had an invitation letter that they were going to send out to invite some folks. I took that letter and stapled my business card to twenty invitations. It took one hour’s time and I walked into the businesses in that town and said “Hi, my name is Patti. You don’t know me and I am not here to sell you anything, but what I am here to do is invite you to a networking breakfast that we have here in town. Everybody’s going to be there and I just wanted to give you an invitation.” And I walked out.

I took one hour to do that with twenty invitations and actually three people showed out of that. One of the invitations went to a woman who owned a bridal shop and she called me the night before and said, “Can I bring somebody with me?”

I said absolutely. So she brought a woman who was an event planner. Altogether, we had four people out of those twenty invitations. The event planner joined and so did the bridal shop owner and one other person. So three out of four joined, and the event planner actually brought seven people into the chapter the very first month in membership.

Ivan:
Well. That’s incredible. Listen Patti, we’re just about out of time. Is there anything else you want to add? This is great material for members to hear.

Patti:
Thank you very much. I just think that there are always more people that you can invite. There is an endless list. Don’t get discouraged. Just think of the people that you haven’t invited or people that you haven’t met yet. So it’s not who you know but who you meet through who you know.

Ivan:
I think that’s powerful. This whole idea of “we are different in this area”- I’ve always found it very interesting. I find that most people who say we’re different – it’s really an excuse not to do something that people feel uncomfortable with. They really just don’t want to do what’s been said, or they don’t know how to do it. It’s really easy to say we’re different in this area, but my experience has been that the challenges in the chapters all around the world are consistently similar whether you’re talking about one part of the country or another or completely different countries.

What you just described I think will work in every country of BNI. Patti, I really appreciate you being in our podcast for the listeners here. For the listeners, I’m speaking with Patti Salvucci one of the top BNI directors in the world. She handles our BNI chapters in the Massachusetts and has about 100 chapters with about 27 members per chapter. She knows what she’s doing. Take these ideas and please share some of them at your next chapter meeting.

Patti, thank you very much. Frank, back to you.

Frank:
Thank you, Dr. Misner. For Patti Salvucci Ivan Misner, I’m Frank Felker saying we will see you next week on the official BNI podcast.

Ivan Spoke Before 400+ BNIers in Minneapolis

Why BNI Wants Leadership Teams to Change on a Regular Basis

Avoiding Leadership Team Burnout

Leadership Means Creating More Leaders, Not More Followers

What Should Leadership Team Members Do After They Leave The Leadership Team?

Why Do I Have To Go To Training Again?

What Criteria Do You Use To Choose New Leadership Team Members From The Existing Membership?

Complete Transcription of BNI Podcast Episode 011 -

Frank Felker:
Hello everybody and welcome back to the official BNI podcast, brought to you by networkingnow.com, the leading site of the net for networking downloadables. I’m Frank Felker in Washington DC joined on the phone again today by Founder and Chairman of BNI, Dr. Ivan Misner. He’s calling in from BNI headquarters in sunny southern California. How are you today, Ivan?

Ivan Misner:
Doing great Frank, thank you very much.

Frank:
I understand we have a special guest on the line today?

Ivan:
We surely do. Nancy Giacomuzzi. Nancy is the Executive Director in the Minneapolis, Minnesota area, one of our strongest regions for BNI. If you had asked me 22 years ago when I started BNI if Minnesota would have been one of the biggest regions for BNI, I would’ve said not a chance. I’m really impressed with what you’ve done in this area. We have over 130 chapters in all of Minnesota with an average number of members per chapter of 28. Isn’t that right?

Nancy Giacomuzzi:
That is right. We’re really excited what is happening over here with BNI.

Ivan:
Well, you have done a great job. I have invited you to be part of this podcast today because you had a topic that you brought up in my visit last week to Minneapolis. You had over 450 people at the event last week.

Nancy:
We had a great event. I was so delighted that you were able to be part of that. It was very exciting to have all the members in participation. And a question did come up.

Ivan:
I think it went really well and a question came up that I thought would be a great topic for the podcast. Why don’t you throw the topic out there and we’ll take it from there.

Nancy:
Okay. We are starting to identify our chapter president for the next leadership team. Perhaps you could explain why BNI suggests that the leadership team change on a regular basis.

Ivan:
This is a really important one. It is really timely because the executive directors, assistant area directors, and regional directors should be looking at future potential leadership teams because even though it seems like the transition just took place, you need to start looking now and chapters should start looking for the next generation of leadership people early so that they can be in place and have time to go through the training.

There are a number of reasons why we recommend that they not be in position over and over again. I’ll give a couple of comments and throw it to you to see if you have anything to add. I think it’s really easy to burn people out. When we first started BNI, the leadership teams were one year. We just burned them out. Even for the people who said no way, I love this and I want to stay in. We would burn them out. They would really get very tired after something close to a year. And certainly anyone who early on went two years, by the end of their second term, it was just too much.

There’s an even more important reason that I have and am going to throw it to you. I think the more important reason is that you have to bring in other people to help support. You can’t be a one person show or a three person show. The more people that you bring on, the more leadership you’ll have. To me, true leadership is about creating more leaders, not more followers.

When you have a leadership team that is going to transition to another strong leadership team, they end their job perfectly by training additional people who can take over. Then they’re sort of the elder statesman, so to speak, in helping the new leadership team to run the chapter. So then you have a lot of leaders and not just three. Do you have anything to add to that?

Nancy:
I think you are right. What happens is that some of them do such a great job they just get so excited about being in that position. But we realize that the more people that we have to do those positions, the stronger everybody in the chapter is, so it works really well.

Ivan:
You know, I think you’re right. Sometimes they did a great job so they want to do it a second or third term, but that is absolutely a recipe for disaster in the chapter. We will burn them out. And we’re not creating more leaders by doing that.

Nancy:
They think they’ve done a great job and that their chapter will benefit by that having them continue to do that. You’re right – they do burn out. It is easier to just bring on more people so everybody participates.

Ivan:
Isn’t it better having six to nine people who overtime are supporting the chapter within the membership committee, as a past leadership team person or a visitor host as a past leadership team person – it just makes a stronger chapter.

Nancy:
That was one of the other questions that some of them have. Sometimes it’s hard for the leadership team members to become just a regular member, so any tips on what they should or shouldn’t do after having been on the leadership team?

Ivan:
That is a great question and I think they need to step over to the membership committee because that is such an important role within a chapter. A membership committee makes or breaks the chapter. I would love to see the president and the vice president step into the role of the membership committee when they step down because they have been through the training and can really support the chapter. I also think the visitor host position is a very important position for the organization. The past leadership team person is perfect for the visitor host position.

Nancy:
One of the other topics that always comes up in is that some people have been in the roles and out of the roles, and they’re looking at coming back in and supporting one of the different roles again. They say all I have already been on the leadership team in the past. Why do I have to go to training again?

Ivan:
The training question. Listen, you know I think training is one of the core competencies of BNI. It is one of the really important reasons why we are the world’s largest business networking organization. This year, 2007 when this is being recorded, we will have dedicated more than 126,000 persons hours to leadership team training. Right now, we have 4800 chapters times three leadership team people times roughly four and a half hours of training times twice each year. That is over 126,000 person hours.

When people join BNI, this is one of the reasons why the program was so successful. If you are a member of BNI listening to this podcast and you ever have a leadership to person who says yeah I want to be on the leadership team but I don’t go on to go through training, kick them out. Don’t let that be the pilot of your chapter without having gone through pilot training or retraining because they will ride your chapter right to the ground. I think that is the most important thing. They have to go through the training.

I think we’re almost out of time. Nancy, did you have any last thing?

Nancy:
I think the only other question is what criteria which you use to determine if a member would be good on the membership team? Any thoughts there?

Ivan:
That’s a good question. There are different personalities that fit the different roles well. You certainly want someone who is a detailed person to do the secretary and treasurer role. You want someone who can make tough decisions to be the vice president, and you want someone who can speak well extemporaneously to the president.

Someone in a chapter can fit any one of those three positions because they really take different skill sets. I like those three positions because you can take someone with any skill set to put them in to one of those three positions within the organization. I think it’s important to get more and more participation to take us back to the first question. The more people and the more leaders you have in a chapter, the stronger the chapters are going to be.

I think we have run out of time. Nancy, thank you so much for posing these questions because they’re really timely and everyone for needs to hear them.

Frank:
Well, that’s it for this week’s episode of the official BNI podcast. For Nancy Giacomuzzi and Dr. Ivan Meister, I am Frank Felker saying we’ll see you next week on the official BNI podcast.